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greep



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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:27 pm

Look I can't debate all your incredibly minor points, there's hundreds of them, and I don't want to write 3 pages of stuff about a minor point in a video game, especially stuff you should've learned in your first month of pvp like firestorm being crap. If you can't win 80% and get frequent 25s in 4v4 with a mels monk, just admit it's bad, because it is. And it doesn't fly in 8v8 because boon prot is all about efficient heals, which party support does massively better in 8v8. Or RC in the current condition meta. If you want to argue that PvP has degraded to the point that skill-less builds are superior and has taken away the fun of PvP when balanced builds reigned, I'd agree, shit like triple derv is stupid. But if you want to argue that they're very inferior, you're just plain wrong.

Minor runes and spike have always prevailed for the entire history of guild wars (small exception when superior runes being used before armor switching was disabled in PvP). Most lower level players even think balanced is superior to pure spike because it has more reliable damage. It's not, it's because balanced vs spike wins since they can disrupt the spike to the point where it is non-lethal, and balanced vs. balanced is all about trying to cause a shut down long enough for your melee to sneak in a spike with spike support. There was only a relatively small period of time after the LoD nerf when completely non-spike hexway style builds won, but at that point guild wars pretty much toppled in balance anyways. Normally DPM simply cannot deal with party wide support or even spot healing efficiency.

In a game that's filled with millions of players, it really boggles the mind that you would think the top couple dozen players are bad because they pretty much all run meta builds now. So the top .0001% of players are all idiots? No.
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DarthXX



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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Thu Jul 07, 2011 4:53 pm

No one fears backfire Terran. The point of veil is stop Diversion/Shame which are the real killers.
I would very much like to see your monk bar stand up to 1 diversion spam seeing as you have no prevention and 2 short recharge skills to spam. It will crumble and die once rof/draw is out.

WoH is more energy efficient than your BoonProtted RoF, it heals more for 5e while RoF will cost 7e and has the -1 regen from boonprot. This is why you run Melandru's to compensate for this inefficiency, the problem is that it is not consistent, it relies on the opposing team running heavy conds or stacking hexes on you specifically. DS is a panic move which does not mitigate the e-loss from Boon, you will still be paying 3e per cast. WoH builds don't have any reliance on any extraneous factors, and hence are solid in all situations.

Rejuv heals more than signet of devotion, the condition is ridiculously easy to fulfill. Also devo is 2s cast, just terrible.

Lastly WoH monks can use ench wep sets too, this is not a differentiating factor between the 2 builds.

tl;dr Your boon prot gets raped by any of the following - ench removal, diversion, stance removal, knock downs. Good thing nobody uses any of those in PvP amirite?
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Terran
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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:15 pm

greep wrote:
Look I can't debate all your incredibly minor points

You can't debate any points at all. Debating involves evidence, explanation and reason, not making poorly thought out empty claims. This only hurts the few things you said that were true in your first post.

greep wrote:
I don't want to write 3 pages of stuff about a minor point in a video game

What you did was make a bunch of cynical empty claims that were untrue. I went through some details to prove you wrong (I could have written 30 pages). And instead of dealing with the information that proves you wrong, you run off with your hands in their air making more empty claims to compensate. You don't want to have to prove yourself, because there's no truth behind your claims. Your bluff was called, empty-hand-luke.


greep wrote:
especially stuff you should've learned in your first month of pvp like firestorm being crap

You should have learned how to use  in the first few weeks. I prove that it works, over and over. You can sit there making empty claims all you like, choosing to believe your own lies doesn't make them true. Deal with reality and see things as they are, not as you want them to be. Using  properly takes a lot more talent than chasing a target mindlessly with . Just because you lack the ability to understand  and combine it properly with your build, strategy and tactics, doesn't make it crap. It makes you crap. It shows that you prefer to repeat the same simple sequence over and over, instead of using a variety of strategies and tactics on the fly.

greep wrote:
If you can't win 80% and get frequent 25s in 4v4 with a mels monk, just admit it's bad, because it is

Comparing your build success rate (which sounds likely to be 20% not 80%) to the arena designed for beginners, you need to admit it's bad, because it is. Are you also one of those people who go to the PvE training arenas with max armor, to beat new players who have a handful of skills and just trying to learn? When I made my PvE Warrior back in 2005, I went into Random Arena at level 15 and still won 80%+ of matches. Greep's next feat of strength - Owning toddlers at making sand castles at his local preschool sandpit. Go rank em tiger!


greep wrote:
it doesn't fly in 8v8 because boon prot is all about efficient heals, which party support does massively better in 8v8. Or RC in the current condition meta

This just shows how clueless you are about boon prots. It might be slightly more efficient on paper, but it doesn't work that way in a real match. The point of boon protting isn't about an energy-to-heal ratio. It's about getting fast casting heal+prot in one, where it's needed, when it's needed. It's about casting spells that come at a greater speed, greater cost and a greater reward, with a greater penalty for screwing up. That's why it takes more talent to run a boon prot. You can't just spam your skills on recharge, you have to prioritise and throw in  as much as safely possible. A bad player will run a boon prot and run out of energy fast, a good player won't. On a  Monk, healing the wrong target comes at a much lesser penalty than it does on a boon prot. You can affiord to screw up with those kiddy builds, that's why they're popular. On a boon prot, if you screw up, it's over.

In 8 vs 8, my Melandru's Boon Prot works especially well due to all the aoe conditions spread by dervishes right now. It serves the job of a  or  prot, but does a better job at it by providing better antispike, which is the purpose of a prot. It also has a better heal output than a full prot, and lack of heal output is the cause of most deaths, not lack of antispike. The job of a boon prot is to merge both heals and prots in a way that synergises without overhealing.

Just because you lack the talent to use it correctly, doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that you're bad. Your inability to back up any of your points and deal with the list of evidence, explanation and reason against you, shows that your understanding of the game is very limited and misguided, and you're faking it.

greep wrote:
If you want to argue that PvP has degraded to the point that skill-less builds are superior and has taken away the fun of PvP when balanced builds reigned, I'd agree, shit like triple derv is stupid. But if you want to argue that they're very inferior, you're just plain wrong

All meta is meta because its easy, not because it's good. When such easy builds are also good, they're nerfed because people leave the game over it, which saps out of Guild Wars 2 sales. Most meta is inferior, some meta is better than that. All meta sucks. You've clearly shown that you lack the competence, knowledge and intellectual drive to percieve the difference between a superior build and an inferior build.

greep wrote:
Minor runes and spike have always prevailed for the entire history of guild wars (small exception when superior runes being used before armor switching was disabled in PvP)

Total rubbish. Minor runes became a fad after everything became IWAY or pure countdown spike, about the time most of the PvP community left the game in disgust. I've already explained the details of this in my post above, why don't you read it instead of throwing BS around?

greep wrote:
Most lower level players even think balanced is superior to pure spike because it has more reliable damage. It's not, it's because balanced vs spike wins since they can disrupt the spike to the point where it is non-lethal, and balanced vs. balanced is all about trying to cause a shut down long enough for your melee to sneak in a spike with spike support.

Total rubbish. Balanced is a term that has been misused and twisted over the years. It originally meant any mix of professions and builds that worked together (a concept of teamwork), as opposed to everyone having the same profession (another concept of teamwork). 'Balanced' was twisted into an umbrella term to mean, 'I'm too ashamed to run that obvious crap, but not ashamed enough to run this less obvious crap'. 'Balanced' became nothing more than a 'rainbow spike', while trying to pretend it wasn't.

Once upon a time, interrupts did not function the way they do now. There was no way to know when a player was activating a skill outside of their character animation. Both balanced and pure countdown spike were set in long before the change was added to allow you to see a player's skill activation. The point to using balance against countdown spike was to get one down to break their spike and keep them on the defence. Pure countdown spike was so easy that you could do it without a computer screen (an experiment I proved), but it was always very fragile. Kills via countdown spike were very slow, and hence you had a chance to break their spike.

All of that crap has long since been nerfed, to the point where whole professions and attributes have been nerfed to oblivion. The examples of IWAY, Wammos and Shockwars have shown just how much bad players will hold onto an easy build, no matter how bad it is. It's all nothing more than bad players priding themselves over beating other bad players, in a bad community.

greep wrote:
There was only a relatively small period of time after the LoD nerf when completely non-spike hexway style builds won, but at that point guild wars pretty much toppled in balance anyways

You're seeing only what you want to see.

greep wrote:
Normally DPM simply cannot deal with party wide support or even spot healing efficiency

It's called DPS (damage per second). DPM (damage per minute) is a conjured up term that theorycrafters use when they use frenzy on the Master of Damage for a minute and believe it translates directly to a real match. You also have to consider blind, snare, combo charge/recharge time, blocking, kiting, condition/hex removals and many other interactions that occur. This is why DPS is the only measure that means something, and only taken in the right context. Quoting DPM instead of DPS like this, is for theorycrafters who like to pretend they know what they're talking about, but don't. Raw numbers can be interpreted to mean whatever you want them to mean.

greep wrote:
In a game that's filled with millions of players, it really boggles the mind that you would think the top couple dozen players are bad because they pretty much all run meta builds now. So the top .0001% of players are all idiots? No.

Guild Wars was intended as a PvP heavy game with light PvE content added. Of those millions of players, only a fraction of them play anymore. Of that fraction, only a tiny fraction have ever done PvP. Ponder why. Arenanet did their own assessment years ago when PvP was more busy, and found less than 5% of players ever did any PvP, though the interest was there. The problem was with the PvP community. The arrogance, laziness, immaturity, incompetence, mentalities and builds. Sure, most of them are incompetent themselves, just like the PvP community. Some clueless PvE players will come into PvP blindly and contribute to the Wammo effect. Understand that the PvP game in Guild Wars is unappealing to most, not because of the game itself, but because of the appalling state of the PvP community. You all form little groups here and there, believing you're the top of the chain and the exception. You're not. You are the problem. You could be Ranger spike, believing you're better than Balanced. You could be Balanced, believing you're better than Blood spike. You could be Blood spike, believing you're better than IWAY. You could be IWAY, believing you're better than Ranger spike. It's all the same. You're all bad players, priding yourselves on beating other bad players, village idiots stuck in a dance of copycat oneupmanship in their own idiot village.

MMORPG's - a safe haven for village idiots to role play the MMO instead of playing their role in the game. Internet anonymity at its not-so-finest.


DarthXX wrote:
No one fears backfire Terran. The point of veil is stop Diversion/Shame which are the real killers

Hello? .  kills,  doesn't. You're perpetually overcompensating for a fundamental weakness that you refuse to face. Guild Wars is like chess. You only win by playing offensively and competently. Use the situation to your advantage. What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. Adapt, and learn.

DarthXX wrote:
I would very much like to see your monk bar stand up to 1 diversion spam seeing as you have no prevention and 2 short recharge skills to spam. It will crumble and die once rof/draw is out.

I would very much like to see you use  against . I'm smart enough to deliberately  skills if I need to, and I can afford to trigger  as well if I need to.

DarthXX wrote:
WoH is more energy efficient than your BoonProtted RoF, it heals more for 5e while RoF will cost 7e and has the -1 regen from boonprot

 is interrupt fodder, and without it your build is dead. That's why you fear  so much. You're trying to compensate for weaknesses by making yourself even weaker.  through  is 6 Energy, not 7. Compared to a standard  Monk as mentioned in my above post, the heal range is very close. With , you're going to get the upper end of that heal range almost always, while  comes at a dangerous conditional requirement, being a slower casting heal while the target's Health is under 50%.

If you combine the damage mitigation effects of , you add up to another 58 to its total heal output...

 - 129-238
 - 116-231

They are almost identical in heal output, while  triggers the conditional heal much better than .

 cast 1/4, recharge 2, cost 6, requires .
 cast 3/4, recharge 3, cost 5, requires Elite skill slot.

Your favourite Elite skill, outdone by a normal skill.

DarthXX wrote:
This is why you run Melandru's to compensate for this inefficiency, the problem is that it is not consistent, it relies on the opposing team running heavy conds or stacking hexes on you specifically

You're only proving how far the build goes over your head. I dont use  to carry the build.  isn't the engine, it's the gear stick, along with . The engine of the build is . It doesn't need conditions and hexes to function properly.

DarthXX wrote:
DS is a panic move which does not mitigate the e-loss from Boon, you will still be paying 3e per cast

Wrong. Try  at 10 energy, then use . The penalty from  (like all energy drain penalties) cannot take your energy below 0. You can be fully drained, and still cast at will with 0-1 Energy. The only Energy you're penalised with is a negligible fraction of 1 Energy you gain during the 1/4 cast time.  is not a panic move at all. It's a godmode move that needs to be used at just the right time. A panic move is running interrupt/knockdown/defence utility spam because you can't outmatch your opponent head on.

DarthXX wrote:
WoH builds don't have any reliance on any extraneous factors, and hence are solid in all situations

Total rubbish. Good Monks take advantage of 'extraneous factors' (lets use buzz words to sound smart!), while bad Monks ignore them. It's all about battlefield awareness. A good Monk might know that his Elementalist is using , and hence know that it came from an ally. He will walk into it and stand there so that the Assassin humping his leg will trigger it. A bad Monk will see red and run away, constantly pulling the Assassin out of his teammates nukes, who is trying to help him. My boon prot does not rely on 'extraneous factors', it takes advantage of them.

Lets talk about 'conditional factors'. Boon prot power heals are reliable, while your  is plagued with very costly conditional requirements across the whole build and its variations. The most common conditional factors are...

 only worth using on targets under 50% health. Good monks react at 75-80%, bad Monks wait until it's too late, opening the way to an easy spike.
 If target is kiting, this is crap. People kite a lot.
 critical 2 second time delay before it heals, making it useless for anything but a pressure heal.

Your whole build revolves around , because you have such a simple and linear mindset. Because of that mindset, you believe that my Melandru's Boon Prot revolves around . And that's why you fail so often against it. You lack the dimension of thought and understanding to see the whole picture.

DarthXX wrote:
Rejuv heals more than signet of devotion, the condition is ridiculously easy to fulfill. Also devo is 2s cast, just terrible

 is right in the middle of the conditional/unconditional heal you get from . Due to players kiting and chasing frequently,  does not apply the conditional heal as much as you would like to say it does. If you consider both the recharge and casting times,  can be applied every 7 seconds, while  every 9 seconds.  is only worth using at 16 attribute (Superior Divine Favor), which is why you don't know how to use it properly. I regularly antispike with , by predicting damage and cancel/casting. I can even use cancel/casting to pull interrupts. Learn how to use it properly, and how it combines between two  for example. Competent oldschool boon prots knew this, but it's a forgotten technique nowadays.

DarthXX wrote:
Lastly WoH monks can use ench wep sets too, this is not a differentiating factor between the 2 builds

And yet you never use enchantment weapon sets, because they add nothing to a  Monk and only hurt your build. Just like how you use a bow on your Monk for .

DarthXX wrote:
tl;dr Your boon prot gets raped by any of the following - ench removal, diversion, stance removal, knock downs. Good thing nobody uses any of those in PvP amirite?

'tl;dr - too long; didnt read'. Exactly. You make empty claims, can't back anything up, and don't even read the evidence, explanations and reasoning that proves you wrong, and resort to repeating the same old debunked nonsense over and over.

It still wont read!

A village idiot, sitting in the middle of the street eating everyone elses poop, believing that doing so makes him 'kool', because someone told him it was.
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DarthXX



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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Sat Jul 09, 2011 7:04 am

Didn't read that whole wall of text but, Melandru's is the engine no matter what u say, without that build falls apart, try spam casting without it and see how fast you run dry.

Personally not a huge fan of WoH, I prefer ZB but the concept of the bar is the same. Patient spirit on allies over 50%, WoH/ZB on allies under 50%, always efficient heals.

Last I use ench sets on all builds, you do know you can change weapons right? I use Enchanting staff for my prots (guardian etc) then change back to shield, its not that hard, and the back to 40/40 for WoH or what have you.
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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Sat Jul 09, 2011 11:03 pm

You didn't read his post why? and you're trying to make claims when you have evidence showed against you but you don't bother to read it? Trying to bash his argument without reading the actual substance is playing Russian roulette, except this time ALL the chambers are loaded, so you pull the trigger and shoot yourself. Games over and the only one here looking like a buffoon, is you Darth. The last act of a coward is to deny the evidence against him and stick to some meaningless debunked argument that's long past failed.

Personally I call bullshit on you claiming you're not a "big fan of Woh", seen you use it many many times. You claim Melandrus resilience is the engine of his build, it's not just and it shows your incompetence to understand that the elite doesn't have to drive the build. Look at this thread your posting on right here, all the other trolls here have been silent for ages not even responding to Terrans post with any kind of substance, let alone even trying to fight his arguments. You have already lost, and hard. Except now it's for the world to see it all in it's not so prestigious glory.

I'll explain why Melandus resilience isn't the engine so Terran doesn't have to respond to absolute trash that's not even capable or willing to take anything, let alone themselves seriously.


Read what Terran actually said, instead of what YOU think he said and you actually might be able to grasp what is going on.
Quote :
The engine of the build is   It doesn't need conditions and hexes to function properly.
Look at that for half a second and see reality, not what you want to see. As Terran put it,  has relatively comparative heals TO AN ELITE if you add the actual healing and damage mitigation together. But that's not even the point of your argument, its just a point to be hammered home.


If you read his post instead of doing troll nonsense and playing Russian roulette with all the chambers loaded you would notice he explained how the build doesn't rely on Melandrus resilience. Think about it, the actual hp regeneration and energy regeneration don't drive the build, contrary to everything you know, elites don't have to rule a build build to make it function properly. Boon-prot relies on the player more than the player relying on the build, with Boon-Prot the power is in your hands, not the other way around.  is a free 106 hp heal that you save energy with, and can pull all the interrupts in the world with but you can't be an imbecile using it.  as Terran said is the god mode of the build, not something it relies on.  With a heal relative to that of  with a .25 cast time you don't spam it as much as you think as you think you seem to have to.

If you were an actual competent monk, look at how  are the actual heals, damage mitigation, and Prots of the build. That is what drives the build, and all of that with  and  being what supports it, makes it stronger, gives it a whole nother level to go into, thus why Terran called it the gear shift. The more pressure you put on  the higher the gear you put your opponent in, the more you pressure it, the stronger it becomes.


With the weak arguments you make now Darth, and the even admitted failure to actually read the evidence against you, while throwing up old debunked arguments, games already over and you have lost big time. At this point, you might as well be Bruce Willis from The sixth sense, the only one who doesn't see that your dead is you. Awhile ago now Terran gave you an opportunity to improve your self, and the world around you instead of playing meaningless games. Like him, I suggest instead of chasing the White rabbit, you begin to follow it and see where that path takes you. Open your eyes, look around sometime and you will be surprised at what you see.






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Derelict



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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:11 am

Terran wrote:
[...]Debating involves evidence, explanation and reason[...]
And yet you never provide evidence, just wild claims and ramblings about how everyone else is a "village idiot" and cant use builds properly.

Its also quite funny how you start to blatantly insult everyone who doesnt agree with you.
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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:06 am

Terran wrote:
Terran wrote:

In 8 vs 8, my Melandru's Boon Prot works especially well due to all the aoe conditions spread by dervishes right now. It serves the job of a  or  prot, but does a better job at it by providing better antispike, which is the purpose of a prot. It also has a better heal output than a full prot, and lack of heal output is the cause of most deaths, not lack of antispike. The job of a boon prot is to merge both heals and prots in a way that synergises without overhealing.

Just because you lack the talent to use it correctly, doesn't mean it's bad. It just means that you're bad. Your inability to back up any of your points and deal with the list of evidence, explanation and reason against you, shows that your understanding of the game is very limited and misguided, and you're faking it.

Dervishes in current 8vs8 dont deal in spikes they deal in pressure.

 amounts for a 330 hp heal from deep wound, cripple, bleeding, cracked armor and burning.
 and  you cast patient-draw-WoH. Patient as a safeguard, draw to get the deep wound off and WoH, netting you a ~360 hp heal for 15 energy.

You will have to use [draw condition] and  spending 12 energy and netting 228 hp of heal on your target.
The dervish then autoattacks and trigger off your  for maybe 20 damage?

Since your heals are smaller you will have to "spam" on your teammembers, you will have less time to kite.
You also create "excess" heal whenever you try to pre prot someone with a guardian.

Over the whole course of the fight you sacrifice 1 pip of energy (1 energy every 3 seconds).
That is the reason why you NEED  to achieve some "standing power".
Proven by yourself, since you admit  is weak while you also claim that  is of only minor importance to your build. That is a contradiction.
The Boonprot relies on active energy management.

 deadlocks you 2 seconds for a laughable 106 hp heal, a melee can hit twice during that time, negating that heal.
Your  can be removed, forcing you to spend 5 energy to recast it.   every 10 seconds.

You dont have any hexremove to free your team of shutdown hexes.

. The first one can be negated by , then you already have to divert crucial skills.


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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:26 am




If you actually have the balls to do it i invite you to a duel where i will play a standard WoH monk bar
and you can show me your "tactical and skillfull" placement of firestorm.
You will not kill me with any of those builds.

I am particularily keen on seeing you play the decapitate build.

A U R E O L E
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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:27 am

He is not gonna duel you because he knows the builds are bad, and he knows when he loses he will be forced to admit.

BTW The crapazar build isn't his, I got it of PVX to prove a point.
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PostSubject: Re: Guildwarsguru and PVXwiki exposed!   Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:19 pm

Derelict wrote:
And yet you never provide evidence, just wild claims and ramblings about how everyone else is a "village idiot" and cant use builds properly.

Its also quite funny how you start to blatantly insult everyone who doesnt agree with you

I'm the only one who's provided evidence here. If you want to stop being called a village idiot, then stop acting like one, simple. It's not my fault you're a village idiot, it's yours. Use it or lose it.


Derelict wrote:
Dervishes in current 8vs8 dont deal in spikes they deal in pressure

Bad melee can do pressure or spike. Good melee does both.

Derelict wrote:
 amounts for a 330 hp heal from deep wound, cripple, bleeding, cracked armor and burning

 only works against heavy conditions. Its function is to antispike deep wound spikes and convert heavy condition pressure into heals. But you need 3 or more conditions to beat my own  and make it worth using, making it very fragile outside of a small niche of uncommon team builds. To make it worse, you need to be using 14 protection Prayers and 0 Divine Favor to get 330 health out of 5 conditions on . Learn to use Divine Favor, it's the exclusive Monk attribute for a reason.

 cannot keep up with Area of Effect condition spam, because you're blowing a lot of energy on it over time against short duration conditions that cause you to waste condition removals on the wrong target, which is the intended point of using short duration Area of Effect conditions, along with providing a cover for the important conditions like daze, blind and deep wound.

And lastly, you cannot use  on yourself, making you an easy target to spike out if you were a threat.

On the other hand, With  on my boon prot,  translates into significant Health and Energy regeneration for me, while offering a decent heal to the target guaranteed, while also healing myself directly for up to 190 health (all 10 conditions) up front.

To compare the functionality in a  build against  in mine...

: Remove all conditions from target other ally. Target other ally is healed for 66 for each condition removed.

: Heal target ally for 114 health, and remove all conditions from target other ally, drawing them to yourself. For each condition drawn, you gain +19 health, +4 Health regeneration and +1 Energy regeneration for the duration of each condition.

You at 14 Protection Prayers and 0 Divine Favor

0 condition = 0 (0 = 0!)
1 condition = 66 (66 = 66)
2 condition = 132 (66 + 66 = 132)
3 condition = 198 ( 66 + 66 + 66 = 198)
4 condition = 264 (66 + 66 + 66 + 66 = 264)
5 condition = 330 (66 + 66 + 66 + 66 + 66 = 330)

You at 13 ProtectionPprayers and 6 Divine Favor

0 condition = 32 ((32 DF) = 32)
1 condition = 94 ((32 DF)+ (62) = 94)
2 condition = 156 ((32 DF)+ (62 + 62) = 156)
3 condition = 218 ((32 DF)+ (62 + 62 + 62) = 218)
4 condition = 280 ((32 DF)+ (62 + 62 + 62 + 62) = 280)
5 condition = 342 ((32 DF)+ (62 + 62 + 62 + 62 + 62) = 342)

You at 10 ProtectionPprayers and 16 Divine Favor

0 condition = 51 ((51 DF) = 51)
1 condition = 101 ((51 DF)+ (50) = 101)
2 condition = 151 ((51 DF)+ (50 + 50) = 151)
3 condition = 201 ((51 DF)+ (50 + 50 + 50) = 201)
4 condition = 251 ((51 DF)+ (50 + 50 + 50 + 50) = 251)
5 condition = 301 ((51 DF)+ (50 + 50 + 50 + 50 + 50) = 301)

Me at 16 Divine Favor and 10 Protection Prayers.

0 condition = 114 ((51 DF + 63 boon) = 114)
1 condition = 133 ((51 DF + 63 boon) + (19 on self) = 133)
2 condition = 152 ((51 DF + 63 boon) + (19 + 19 on self) = 152)
3 condition = 171 ((51 DF + 63 boon) + (19 + 19 + 19 on self) = 171)
4 condition = 190 ((51 DF + 63 boon) + (19 + 19 + 19 + 19 on self) = 190)
5 condition = 209 ((51 DF + 63 boon) + (19 + 19 + 19 + 19 + 19 on self) = 209)

Displayed in a graph...


Mind you, with 5 conditions drawn, that translates into a total of +20 health regeneration (+10 maximum at a time) and +9 Energy regeneration, +8 if you count , which doubles the Energy regeneration of any other Monk at +4. So as you can see, yet another of your favourite elites, outdone by a non elite.

Derelict wrote:
 and  you cast patient-draw-WoH. Patient as a safeguard, draw to get the deep wound off and WoH, netting you a ~360 hp heal for 15 energy

Casting  as a 'safeguard' is no safeguard at all. You suffer from a 0.75 second aftercast delay for each spell, meaning that you have to wait almost 3 seconds (the time it takes for  to trigger) before any heal comes out of it outside of your negligibly low Divine Favor attribute.

 0.25 second cast, 0.75 second aftercast delay = 1 second
 0.25 second cast, 0.75 second aftercast delay = 1 second
 0.75 second cast = 0.75 seconds

1 + 1 + 0.75 = 2.75 seconds

To reflect, my  gets ~230 hp heal for 1..3..6 Energy in 0.25 seconds, while  and  get a ~344 hp heal to target (as well as all the bonuses you don't get) in 1.25 seconds for 2...6...12 Energy (13-80% of the cost and 45% of the time). On top of that, you lose a third of your alleged ~360 hp heal unless you heal a target that is almost dead.

Derelict wrote:
You will have to use  and  spending 12 energy and netting 228 hp of heal on your target

Get your numbers right for once, they're way off.

Derelict wrote:
The dervish then autoattacks and trigger off your  for maybe 20 damage?

9-41 damage is not the damage a dervish does to 60 Armor. It's the damage a empty modded Scythe does at 9 attribute against base armor. With extra attributes added and mods like 20% from weapon customization and 15% from inscription, it's hard not to fulfill the upper end of the 58 damage limit on my . Even wand attacks trigger mid range most of the time. On top of that, the 1/4 cast time on  means that you have more control over the timing of its placement, putting it within spike combos where the heaviest damage attacks are placed. Any player who knows how to use  properly, also knows how reliable the upper end of its heal range is in the right hands.

Derelict wrote:
Since your heals are smaller you will have to "spam" on your teammembers, you will have less time to kite.
You also create "excess" heal whenever you try to pre prot someone with a guardian

This just shows how clueless you are, and you even contradict yourself by claiming my heals are smaller while creating excess heal at the same time. Boon prot is known for power heals, and I've already shown you this clearly in two threads now. With power heals and prots rolled into one, a boon prot has more time to kite compared to a  Monk with slower cast times and prots that need to be cast seperately to create a much longer spellcasting queue. With  and , I can heal, gain energy and mitigate damage while I kite all at the same time.

If you're using  to heal someone at full Health, you need to learn how to Monk and heal someone who needs it. Boon prot is about multifunctional skills and multitasking, not narrow minded one dimensional button mashing. On a boon prot, you have to prioritise your skills.

Derelict wrote:
Over the whole course of the fight you sacrifice 1 pip of energy (1 energy every 3 seconds).
That is the reason why you NEED [melanrdu's resilience] to achieve some "standing power"

In one ear, out the other. You don't listen because you're too lazy and arrogant to try. That's why you never improve, and it's why you have that embarassing 3000 match losing streak. That pip of Energy is a worthy trade off between heal power and Energy regeneration, giving you a better payoff for doing it right and a greater penalty for doing it wrong. It's been made painfully clear so many times now, it doesn't require  to 'stand'.  is not the engine of the build. It's the gear stick along with . Read above, read the other threads, and read the build description dummy.

It still wont read! Why won't it read!?

Derelict wrote:
Proven by yourself, since you admit  is weak while you also claim that  is of only minor importance to your build. That is a contradiction

You're the one contradicting yourself, making consistent mistakes, inventing inacurate numbers out of thin air, and trying desperately to master the art of bullshittery in hopes of validating your 3000 match losing streak.

I never said  was crap, even though it is. What I said was, ' boon prots were only just barely popular, because few monks could run them. Most Monks at the time ran a crap and simple  boon prot, after observing others like myself use boon so efficiently. My Melandrus Boon Prot predates them all, it's as old as the game itself'.  builds revolved around keeping  on and spamming . There's been many ways of boon protting over the years, some of them still viable now, but none have ever been as good as melandrus boon prot. The difference between my boon prot and a  boon prot is far more than the Elite skill. But you can't wrap your head around this because you can't see past 'mash your favourite button'.

Derelict wrote:
The Boonprot relies on active energy management

And that's a bad thing? The power of active Energy management is in the beholder. A good player will get more out of active Energy management than passive Energy management. A bad player will prefer passive Energy management because they lack the skills to manage things on their own. It's just like driving a car. Which is better, auto or manual?

Derelict wrote:
 deadlocks you 2 seconds for a laughable 106 hp heal, a melee can hit twice during that time, negating that heal

One of the benefits of having a 2 second signet heal is that you can cancel/cast it in an emergency by pressing Q W or E with one finger as you roll another finger for a fast casting Energy heal like . Due to this cancel/cast rolling technique, you can antispike with  just as quick as if you hadn't been casting  in the first place. On top of that,  and the delayed effect and fast cast time from  make  much safer.

The heal output of  is considerable over time. As I've perviously stated several times now: if you don't understand the power and importance of  on a boon prot, then you just don't understand boon prot.

If you compare the heal output of  compared to  over time with both at 16 attribute,  wins, unless you magically happen to trigger a double heal out of  every single time over many casts, in which case you only just barely beat . Consider that any Monk that uses  will also run their Healing Prayers attribute at much lower than 16 in order to cover prots and other utilities that a Healing Monk needs,  on my boon prot is a clear winner.

Learn how to use .

As for Warrior attacks negating the heal you get from , you have it all backward and don't seem to understand. It's Healing that negates and compensates for damage, so if you're at full health and use  to free heal yourself for the damage you took in the time it took to cast it, it did its job. Meanwhile, you regenerated 2 seconds of Energy for free and the Warriors attacks achieved nothing.

Derelict wrote:
Your  can be removed, forcing you to spend 5 energy to recast it.   every 10 seconds

Anyone who understands how a boon prot works will laugh at you for saying this. You cannot unboon a boon prot. Not only do you have an instantly re-castable , but you also have constant cover enchantments to deal with. Any mesmer that tries to focus on unbooning a boon prot is wasting his time, and the boon prot is going to laugh at him for trying. Even in a magical universe where a boon prot loses his  and can't recast it for the rest of the match, he still isn't shut down. All you've gone and done is give him more energy to play with and more prots to use at the cost of a lower heal output.  alone can still do a total of 167 without .

Derelict wrote:
You dont have any hexremove to free your team of shutdown hexes

You're shut down so easily because you use bad builds. Your chronic fear of hexes is unjustified. Conditions are a much cheaper and more effective shutdown than hexes, and only a handful of Hexes shut a good build down. Against anything good, the only way of dealing with hexes is to use an elite like  or a self removal like . Your unjustified fears lead you to run bad builds to compensate for those fears, which only make you more the weaker against that which you fear.

Derelict wrote:
. The first one can be negated by , then you already have to divert crucial skills

Another example of how little you understand.  would not be my first sacrificial skill for . It depends on what I'm facing and the situation at hand, but generally I would sacrifice  first, followed by , then  only if I can afford the energy, else  if there are no enchantment strips. If there's an overload of Hexes and Conditions, I'll sacrifice . If there's little to no conditions, I'll sacrifice . It all depends on the situation. Basically, I can sacrifice everything but  and still keep on going strong thanks to . Most of the time, I'll just wait it out and tank it for energy through , triggering it only when I have to. An effective tactic is to cast  at the right time to trigger the moment  ends, effectively removing its cast time penalty. In most cases, people put  on a Monk they are trying to kill, along with a stack of other hexes and degeneration. Through , I'm able to survive it fine and take advantage of it to boot. If I was to use  to trigger , its long duration allows me to use it to kite during the proceeding  as well. Mesmers only spam  when they're at low Energy and have no other cards to play.

Derelict wrote:
If you actually have the balls to do it i invite you to a duel where i will play a standard WoH monk bar

It's been done over and over and over. And you all deny it every time you get humiliated. Each time, you look for some little scam to try and make it look like you won in some way. A classic example of this is Sean and Darth's little scam. Sean wanted to prove once and for all that he was 'better than me and my build sucked' (in reference to my boon prot). He nagged me to take up one of these silly little 1 vs 1 challenges. Instead of tanking him all day, I told him I would only do it if I could flag the obelisk, and he had to kill me by the time the obelisk killed him (to avoid tanking him for hours, the time it takes for the obelisk to kill is still more than enough time). The scrimmage starts, and he changes his mind, says a bunch of his 'friends' want to watch and resigns. The match restarts, 6 vs 1. We get to the obelisk, and after I cap it, so do they. Then they stand back, throwing pot shots at me throughout the 'challenge', while trying to strip me of my stances and buffing Sean. It turns out that Sean's amazing build was nothing more than a pathetic . I tanked him for ages, despite his team attacking me and taking obelisk fire. Proving my point, I decided to use storm chaser and ran circles around him until he gave up. Then I typed /sit and explained that i was done. Sean then attacked me until I died, and they claimed he defeated me. That's just how pathetic and desperate you lot are.

Derelict wrote:
and you can show me your "tactical and skillfull" placement of firestorm.
You will not kill me with any of those builds.

I am particularily keen on seeing you play the decapitate build.

If you bothered to read, only a couple of those builds are genuine builds. I was showing alternatives to greeps broken  build, alongside a couple of real builds, to show what was wrong with it and a comparison to proper builds and how they work.

I've handed your ass to you more times over the years than I can count, and by the sounds of your 3200 matches without a single PvP title, everyone else has been handing your ass to you as well. Take a clue...


ammad2006 wrote:
He is not gonna duel you because he knows the builds are bad, and he knows when he loses he will be forced to admit

Read above, it's been done over and over and over. Even in my forum, all you can do is throw lies and empty claims around. You're desperate, so desperate and obvious, so obvious. Your inability to deal with and respond to the real data is clear proof that you don't have the faintest idea what you're talking about. It's easy to fake it, isn't it? Not so easy to sound believable though. Some things you just can't fake, kiddo. You're better off being honest from the start and sticking to it.
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