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 The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates

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DarthXX



Posts : 22
Join date : 2011-06-03

PostSubject: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:06 pm

So after many repeated attempted to prove to Terran, that his builds are in fact, terrible and failing I have come to realise that there must be a flaw in my strategy. What I've realised is that he must lack some basic knowledge somewhere along the way so I will go over this in some more detail to make sure everything is covered. Specifically this is about the Boon Protter, which I consider to be Terran's best build out of all the ones he's made.

Before I start I'd like to set 3 rules here.
1. No rebuttal à la
Terran wrote:
I don't buy it
2. None of those stupid pictures or videos, they're a waste of bandwidth.
3. I want Terran to reply, I don't know who this Wrath guy is, but I suspect it is just another account Terran has made.

So to start I thought I'd take the build I made and that I'm using atm and explain how it works and use this to point out the shortcomings of Terran's iteration of Boon Prot.

Equipment - Armour

5 disciple insigs (+15ar while you have a cond)
1 Sup Vig Rune (+50hp)
1 Vitae Rune (+10hp)
+1 Prot/Heal/DF Runes

Equipment - Weapons

Set 1: Sword/Axe/Spear & Shield - +5e insc, +5 armour wrap & 30hp shield, 10ar vs slashing. Use this set when not casting spells, method is simple, switch to casting set, cast spell, change back to shield. You want to spend the least amount of time outside this set as possible.

Set 2: Prot Staff - 20% enchanting wrap, 20% HCT Prot Head, 20% HCT Prot insc. Use this when casting prot spells like guardian/ZB/SH in this particular build.

Set 3: Veil Staff - 30hp wrap, 10% HCT all spells head, 10% HCT all spells insc. As the name suggests, use this when casting veil for a small change of a fast cast.

Set 4: High Set - Wand +15e/-1 regen insc, HSR 20% Prot & Offhand +15e/-1 regen insc, HCT 20% Prot focus core. Use this when running low on mana, change to this set cast spell change back to minimise efect of the -2 regen.

-In my inventory, 1 shield for each damage type. Main hand weapon +30hp/+5e (for armour ignoring damage/ health boost when I get low), and Main hand weapon +5armour/-5e insc (for fighting e-denial). I keep my inventory open (f9) in fights so I can use these weapons as needed.
Added up I sit on 570hp, 35e and +38 armour (+5 wep, +8 shield, +10 shield insc, +15 disciple insig) which is almost a 50% damage reduction (+40ar is 50% reduction)

The Build

Me


 - Shield Set / Veil Staff - Secondary bar push, use on targets over 50% life. Can also use with ench staff to extend delay to 3sec and use as a cover enchantment for Veil.

 - Primary Bar push, use as much as possible, only costs 3e if you do it right. Incredibly energy efficient, I prefer this over WoH for this reason, you last longer but the trade off is you lack a bit of omf. The other benefit is you still get the full heal if you use it on a target over 50% life, there are rare occasions where this applies. Hurts a lot if this gets rupted, but this hardly ever happens.

 - Any Set - Condi removal, use to remove important conditions (blind, cripple, deep wound, if the situation allows daze). Use to keep conds on you to get the +15ar bonus from insigs.

 - Ench Staff - Energy efficient self (usually) heal 144 hp for 5e and 2 conds as a bonus.

 - Ench Staff - Melee prot, preferably on heavy hitters, see warrior running at teammate prot said teammate. 8 sec 50% block is incredibly good, damage blocked is damage you don't have to heal.

 - Veil Staff - Use on fronts/yourself as situation needs to deal with hexes. Cover as needed to prevent rips. Has the added bonus of doubling cast time making it a cakewalk for your midline to interrupt harmful hexes.

 - Ench Staff - Small prot most useful on guys using lots of small attacks (assassins, axe warriors, sword warriors) can also use to block spell damage as needed. Most energy efficient skill on this bar, the more hits it reduces the more efficient it is, lasts 10 blocks much damage. Can easily replace with  if people are running lots of spikes.

 - Ench Staff - Functions as an IMS, anti KD (you only need to block one, if its a single KD its great, if its a chain, you fuck up the whole chain) and also can be used a cover enchant for veil, has 0 cast time to boot.

You will notice, that apart from the 2 generic bar pushers (ZB/PS) each skill has a very specific reason for being there and this can deal with most situations. There are methods of dealing with almost every single opposing build you will come across. The focus of the build is to be as energy efficient as possible and hence doesn't run dry almost ever. ZB is especially good when you are pumping out of a high set as energy is "worth" more there since you have periods of slow regen.

Dies to heavy hexes.

Will die to any spikes unless you are packing SB.

My interpretation of Terran's Boon Prot

Terran's Boon Prot
 - Same as me, removes conds, but thanks to boon, this acts as a secondary bar pusher as well.

 - Small prot, use on melees, again thanks to boon this can be used as a bar pusher if need be.
 - Quick cast small prot good for spikes. In this build will work as the primary bar pusher due to low cooldown.

 - This is the first choice that really puzzles me, It can be used as an IMS when needed but also e-boon if getting hit by elemental damage.

 - Battery of this build, main purpose is to provide energy regen to compensate for the highly inefficient spells that come with boon prot. Also helps a bit vs degen.

 - This is the second skill that puzzles me a good deal. Free heal for no mana, can also be used as interrupt bait I guess.

 - The panic move. Lets you spam to your heart's content, due to boon though it's best used when on 0 energy as you will still take the 1e casting penalty otherwise.

 - Heal power.

I have nothing against boon prot, I use it sometimes when I feel like dicking around or whatever it's pretty fun to play. The issue I have with this build is that while it is not terrible per se, it can be improved very easily as it has some useless skills. By taking up valuable skill slots these skills make this build vulnerable to much more than it should be.

Dies to light hexes, no hex removal. Sure this build can push bars like nothing, it can push bars better than my build. The problem hexes, are not the damage ones as they can simply be healed through. The problems come from hexes like Feint, which reduces melee DPS by 50% just like that. There is no answer for skills like Diversion short of locking out a skill (probs storm chaser if I had to choose) a trick which will only work once. Shame shouldn't be a problem since you got a ton of battery skills. Which brings me to my second point.

Storm Chaser. Why is this skill here? The problem here is that this bar already has 2 e-management skills, Mel's and DS which will let you cast forever and a day. Ontop of that, Mel is a stance so you can't use these 2 skills at the same time. Is it for an IMS then? Fair enough but it burns 10e to use and will likely be canceled soon for Mel's. A far better option if you must have an IMS here is Natural Stride, it makes you run faster, gives you blocking, costs less and is more short lived which is a good thing in this build since you can't stack stances.

Signet of Devotion. The second dead weight skill on this bar, and here's why. I hear you run 16 DF which is a problem for another day, so this heals 106, less than every other prot skill on this bar will heal. It takes 2 seconds to cast, in the vast majority of cases you will be better off casting RoF over this skill. Even if you have just used RoF. You cast RoF, which triggers the .75s casting delay, then you have to wait only 1.25s more before the cooldown is ready to use again, add another .25s and you got 1.5s when you can drop another RoF. That is faster than the 2s from Devo. Add to this the fact that 2s spells can get rupted by my grandma and there is literally no point in having this here. I mentioned baiting interupts, every skill on this bar casts fast anyway except guardian, there is little reason to bait. It's free to cast? well that don't matter with this build since you got Mel's and DS to pump mana. You can easily replace this with almost any other prot skill and it would be an improvement.

Will also die to heavy ench removals, no Boon no hp.

Dies to heavy hexes.

Lastly, this will die to any sort of KD since you got no prevention short of Guardian.
The reason this build works? The vast majority of AB teams are utter shit hence the bar pushing will keep you alive. Boon prot is a simple build, every build becomes a bar push giving you a shit ton of healing power. However this will fall down against any real opposition.

Wow that took a long time. I take a lot of things for granted with players and assume they know most of this stuff when discussing builds but such is evidently not the case with Terran. This time I'm leaving as few stones unturned as I could think of in the 15 minutes it took me to write this. Hopefully this will illustrate to you the glaring problems with your build in its current state.


Last edited by Terran on Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Fixing the gwbbcode for you. You needed to type [build prof][/build] anywhere in your post to activate it.)
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DarthXX



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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:18 am

BUMP! Gotta keep this at the top of this bustling forum!
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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:46 am

DarthXX wrote:

Lastly, this will die to any sort of KD since you got no prevention short of Guardian.
The reason this build works? The vast majority of AB teams are utter shit hence the bar pushing will keep you alive. Boon prot is a simple build, every build becomes a bar push giving you a shit ton of healing power. However this will fall down against any real opposition.

Since there's no edit function gotta make do.

An adjoining addition that absolutely must be added is that stance stoppers strip this set up to an enormous extent, by expunging energy making it hard to heal happily.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:33 pm

I added code to your post to activate the gwbbcode you tried to use. Learn how it works here study.

DarthXX wrote:
So after many repeated attempted to prove to Terran, that his builds are in fact, terrible and failing I have come to realise that there must be a flaw in my strategy. What I've realised is that he must lack some basic knowledge somewhere along the way so I will go over this in some more detail to make sure everything is covered

You haven't tried to prove anything. You read little, assume much, ignore the information already provided, and take shortcuts. Because of this, you lack a great deal of basic knowledge along the way.

DarthXX wrote:
1. No rebuttal à la
Terran wrote:
I don't buy it

A valid response to your empty claims and lack of credibility, especially when you say things like, 'I play purely to troll and grief other people, it gives me fulfillment in an otherwise barren and meaningless life'.

DarthXX wrote:
2. None of those stupid pictures or videos, they're a waste of bandwidth.

Why is it that I'm not allowed to use images, while you attempted (and failed) to display 36 images through the gwbbcode? If the image is relevant to the point, I will post it. Their bandwidth is negligible. Youtube videos only load a low resolution image until you play them, they're designed to be bandwidth friendly. I also don't think you're in a position to dictate the rules of discussion to me, considering your history.

DarthXX wrote:
3. I want Terran to reply, I don't know who this Wrath guy is, but I suspect it is just another account Terran has made

Here I am, replying. You know who Wrath is, you tried to troll both of us at the same time in-game many times. Is your memory that bad, or are you just trying to attack my credibility with more false claims?

DarthXX wrote:
So to start I thought I'd take the build I made and that I'm using atm and explain how it works and use this to point out the shortcomings of Terran's iteration of Boon Prot

This build you posted is a remix of your old  build. All you did was change a couple of skills after copying this build from pvx...

Natural Stride Monk
Yours
DarthXX wrote:
Set 1: Sword/Axe/Spear & Shield - +5e insc, +5 armour wrap & 30hp shield, 10ar vs slashing. Use this set when not casting spells, method is simple, switch to casting set, cast spell, change back to shield. You want to spend the least amount of time outside this set as possible.

Set 2: Prot Staff - 20% enchanting wrap, 20% HCT Prot Head, 20% HCT Prot insc. Use this when casting prot spells like guardian/ZB/SH in this particular build.

Set 3: Veil Staff - 30hp wrap, 10% HCT all spells head, 10% HCT all spells insc. As the name suggests, use this when casting veil for a small change of a fast cast.

Set 4: High Set - Wand +15e/-1 regen insc, HSR 20% Prot & Offhand +15e/-1 regen insc, HCT 20% Prot focus core. Use this when running low on mana, change to this set cast spell change back to minimise efect of the -2 regen.

Theorycrafting nonsense. You're fine with 2 weapon sets, a main set and a high energy set. Any other set is negligible and only applies to very rare situations. You theorycraft that you can change weapons between spells, but it doesn't work that way by design. Changing weapons means you're adding a time delay between your spells, destroying your ability to queue spells for a critically faster speed. You're only making it difficult on yourself by fighting with a mechanic designed to stop what you're trying to do. This comes from a narrow minded 'every little bit helps' mentality. It's the same mentality that leads to wammos and misguided builds like this...

All Weapons Dominator
You spread yourself too thin, believing that it helps you when it takes more than it gives. It all revolves around interracting with your opponent less through passive defences, and focussing on repeating a simple sequence over and over. Sequencing is what bad players do to compensate for their inability to interact with and adapt to new strategies and tactics. Anyone can memorise sequences, I can quote you pi to 100 digits. Memorisation doesn't make you any more intelligent and talented. I can train a rat to remember a sequence of left/right turns in a complex maze, so that he gets out in seconds. I can put him in a new maze with the same sequence of turns, and he still gets out in seconds. But if I put him in a maze with a different sequence of turns, he's completely lost. That's because all he did was memorise a simple sequence, instead of learning how to solve mazes. If I keep running him through different mazes, he eventually learns new universal skills that help him problem solve better. Even a virus can learn a sequence. Intelligence and talent involve problem solving skills that use the information you have.

DarthXX wrote:
In my inventory, 1 shield for each damage type

I do that myself sometimes. But the effect is too minor to bother most of the time. I usually make them only when there's an overwhelming frequency of certain types of damage. Until then, I usually use a 'Recieved physical damage -2 (while enchanted)' shield inscription for more rounded defence.

DarthXX wrote:
Main hand weapon +30hp/+5e (for armour ignoring damage/ health boost when I get low), and Main hand weapon +5armour/-5e insc (for fighting e-denial)

And while you're screwing around with weapon sets for negligible bonuses, it interferes with skill queues and people die because you can't heal fast enough. But hey, you can just pretend it works, just like all those 'quarterknock'ers who fail 90% of the time.

DarthXX wrote:
I keep my inventory open (f9) in fights so I can use these weapons as needed

I keep my inventory closed in fights so I can see what's going on and react to the situation at hand. In the rare case I do need to change a shield, I'll flip it open only at a safe time and close it again immediately after. By color coding paragon shields and putting them in the right positions, I know which shield to choose at an efficient speed.


Yellow Motivation Shield = Air +10
Green Motivation Shield = Earth +10
Red Motivation Shield = Fire +10
Blue Motivation Shield = Water +10
Yellow Command Shield = Slashing +10
Orange Command Shield = Piercing +10
Brown Command Shield = Blunt +10
Strength Shield = -5 always
Tactics Shield = -2 while enchanted

And sometimes others, depending on the need...

Grey Motivation Shield = Daze -20%
Brown Motivation Shield = Deep wound -20%
Orange Motivation Shield = Cripple -20%

and so on.

DarthXX wrote:
Added up I sit on 570hp, 35e and +38 armour (+5 wep, +8 shield, +10 shield insc, +15 disciple insig) which is almost a 50% damage reduction (+40ar is 50% reduction)

Rubbish. You have +13 Armor always, while the rest is conditional. While you're screwing around changing all your mods and weapon sets to fit during a battle, you're already dead from being spiked out. Overcomplicating things does not make them more effective, nor does it make it more talent based.

With 38 maximum Energy, you don't need to be shut down. 45 is the safety limit for maximum Energy on a Monk. Any less and you're easily drained in seconds, especially since you rely critically on a costly  for heals and Energy.

570 health is way too high. You only need about 500, a little less can work depending on the build. The truth behind why you run such high health is because you have such slow reaction times due to screwing around with weapon sets and not knowing how to prioritise. The genuine reason for running minor runes and high health is long gone, and was only useful in a specific build environment. You copy those ideas without understanding their purpose, and add your own excuses for using it. Higher health and lower attributes slow the game down. Higher attributes and lower health speed the game up. You only need enough health to survive a spike. Superior runes are there for a reason. If they were imbalanced, they would have been changed, just like major runes were.

DarthXX wrote:
 - Shield Set / Veil Staff - Secondary bar push, use on targets over 50% life. Can also use with ench staff to extend delay to 3sec and use as a cover enchantment for Veil

You use  instead of the PVX version with  because your build is so fragile. Outside of  you have no reasonable heal, especially since you have such low Divine Favor, which is a very big no no for a Monk. The reason why Monks heal so much better isn't so much to do with their attributes as it is the bonus heal they get through Divine Favor. To reflect,  is given a delayed heal penalty because of it being such a powerful heal above all others.  on the other hand is considered a dead skill, due to its weak heal in comparison to all other heals.  is the strongest while  is the weakest. Yet...

 16 Divine Favor, 13 Healing Prayers: 63+51= 114
 13 Divine Favor, 16 Healing Prayers: 73+42=115
 0 Divine Favor, 16 Healing Prayers: 73+0=73
 16 Divine Favor, 13 Healing Prayers: 108+51=159
 13 Divine Favor, 16 Healing Prayers: 126+42=168
 0 Divine Favor, 16 Healing Prayers: 126+0=126
 6 Divine Favor, 11 Healing Prayers: 96+22=118
 11 Divine Favor, 6 Healing Prayers: 66+35=101
 0 Divine Favor, 11 Healing Prayers: 96+0=96

The strongest cheap heal on your bar is about the same as the weakest broken cheap heal on a properly made build. Notice the comparison between Superior Divine Favor and Superior Healing Prayers. That's how important Divine Favor is. You should never use low Divine Favor, Monk's require high Divine Favor by design.

Swapping weapons to use an extended length  as a cover enchantment for  is theorycrafting nonsense and shooting yourself in the foot by delaying your only heal outside of your Elite skill. Common sense would denote you use  as cover enchantments. You shouldn't even be covering  to begin with. It just shows how much you fear losing  through  or any other skill take down, because your build revolves around that one skill. You could use only  and do almost as well, the same goes for . And you call my build fragile lol!.

DarthXX wrote:
 - Primary Bar push, use as much as possible, only costs 3e if you do it right. Incredibly energy efficient, I prefer this over WoH for this reason, you last longer but the trade off is you lack a bit of omf. The other benefit is you still get the full heal if you use it on a target over 50% life, there are rare occasions where this applies. Hurts a lot if this gets rupted, but this hardly ever happens

It doesn't just hurt a lot, your whole build revolves around this one skill, just like a  Monk, but even moreso.  does allow you to use much needed prots, but as you surely know, it just doesn't cut it alone, and hence why you added  after copying the pvx build.  can be a powerful heal at higher attributes though, and combined with , you can get a total gain of 12 Energy in a single cast. But  will always suffer from being fragile, as it should be for a spammable prot.  is more of a preference to those who choose between the two, because it allows you to still heal once you lose your favorite skill. I think  belongs more in an 8 vs 8 environment than 4 vs 4. Even then, it's still fragile but stable enough to use. You're using maximum Protection Prayers for Zealous benediction here, but if you were to run a Superior Rune, you could easily afford to lose 1 in Protection Prayers to help pump Divine Favor for your other prots to stack up more respectable heals. As is, you're getting only 22 from Divine Favor. If you dropped Earth Prayers and 1 point from Protection Prayers, you would have 35. That's another 13 each spell, regardless of which spell you use, and it stacks up over time. Even in your current build, you would get more out of every spell including , and all you're losing is  which can be changed for another knock down prevention that requires no attribute investment, like ...

6 Divine Favor, 14 Protection Prayers, 11 Healing Prayers, 6 Earth Prayers...

 170+22=192
 96+22=118
 22 to target, 0-250 to self
 22+(0-114)=22-136
 22
 22
 22+47=69

11 Divine Favor, 13 Protection Prayers, 11 Healing Prayers...

 160+35=195
 96+35=141
 35 to target, 0-230 to self
 35+(0-108)=35-145
 35
 35
 35+44=79

Compare the two...

->192->118->22->22/0-250->22-136->69->22
Yours
->195->141->35->35/0-230->35-145->79->35
Alternative
And the coup de grace...

 in your build: 192
 in my build: 116-231

DarthXX wrote:
 - Any Set - Condi removal, use to remove important conditions (blind, cripple, deep wound, if the situation allows daze). Use to keep conds on you to get the +15ar bonus from insigs.

 - Ench Staff - Energy efficient self (usually) heal 144 hp for 5e and 2 conds as a bonus.

You use  instead of  from the pvx build, because you've seen how well I've used it for boon prot antispiking deep wound spikes with a ton of conditions. You also considered using it alongside  for yourself to get a better heal for yourself. Unfortunately, this costs you a lot of Energy and casting time to deal with conditions, as well as the numbers not quite adding up as high as you claim. You could consider using  on yourself instead, to remove all conditions and hexes as well as fully heal yourself every 10 seconds, while being immune to daze and  due to  being a skill and not a spell.

DarthXX wrote:
 - Ench Staff - Melee prot, preferably on heavy hitters, see warrior running at teammate prot said teammate. 8 sec 50% block is incredibly good, damage blocked is damage you don't have to heal

I also use  on my boon prot. As a Monk, you should use  on yourself first, right before your opponent gets into range. If you wait for your opponent to make their move, it's already too late. That's why  is considered a pre-prot that you maintain. Good Warriors will attack one target to pull prots, then spike out another while they're in recharge. If you don't pre-prot with it, they might even take you out before you can get it up, or prevent you from getting it out.

DarthXX wrote:
 - Veil Staff - Use on fronts/yourself as situation needs to deal with hexes. Cover as needed to prevent rips. Has the added bonus of doubling cast time making it a cakewalk for your midline to interrupt harmful hexes

You fear  and as much as you deny it,  as well, so much that you think using a staff just for  is viable.

To quote a sample of my detailed explanation of this in another thread, 'It's all about their fears and insecurities, not about good Monking and teamwork'. Why don't you just use  and perhaps bring along another divine favor skill for once? Imagine the options opened to you with something like .

DarthXX wrote:
 - Ench Staff - Small prot most useful on guys using lots of small attacks (assassins, axe warriors, sword warriors) can also use to block spell damage as needed. Most energy efficient skill on this bar, the more hits it reduces the more efficient it is, lasts 10 blocks much damage. Can easily replace with  if people are running lots of spikes

I use  sometimes myself. I trade it with  depending on whether there is a lot of raw melee damage.  is nerfed, and was only ever good in that lame combination with  in voice chat countdown spikes.  is too costly, but I agree on  being energy efficient, as well as it slowing down damage a great deal, enough to keep a heavily pressured target alive. Since they buffed it by adding a heal at the end, it's even more viable than it once was. Even when others preferred  (and some still do after its nerf), I always preferred .  is more reliable, and doesnt need a set amount of triggers to kick in. While  needs too many triggers to outmatch shielding hands enough to make it worth it. In comparison of the two builds you're comparing here...

 on yours: 69 + 17 damage reduction
 on mine: 152 + 14 damage reduction

DarthXX wrote:
 - Ench Staff - Functions as an IMS, anti KD (you only need to block one, if its a single KD its great, if its a chain, you fuck up the whole chain) and also can be used a cover enchant for veil, has 0 cast time to boot

I also use a run buff. It lasts longer and feeds a considerable amount of energy against Elemental damage. A single  would net me 30 Energy.  or  Elementalists, and  melee becomes laughable. Your run buff  is not viable as a run buff, due to its very low duration of 4 seconds, and removal after a single knock down. it's an overused and exaggerated skill that's only popular due to its low difficulty rating. You can spam it on recharge and forget about it. Consider  to the alternative I gave you further above, , which requires you to use it at the right time, else it can work against you.  costs no Energy, has no attribute requirement, and even gives you an armor boost. Due to the 25% speed boost and low duration,  can actually make you prone to interrupts like . Also note a technique for interrupting is to queue an interrupt while chasing a Monk. The moment they stop to cast, they're interrupted, even on a 3/4 cast time. This works especially well alongside daze, where a Monk will stop kiting and cast after a short duration daze ends, believing they're safe from interrupt, effectively shutting them down for the duration of daze and beyond. With , I can outrun melee with a 15 second duration run buff that can be kept up for 75% of the time, while giving me a consderable amount of energy against Elemental damage.

DarthXX wrote:
You will notice, that apart from the 2 generic bar pushers (ZB/PS) each skill has a very specific reason for being there and this can deal with most situations. There are methods of dealing with almost every single opposing build you will come across

What a load of rubbish. You removed  from the pvx build and replaced it with  because it has such weak heals that only come from one skill. Because your build revolves around  and cannot do anything without it, you will always be fragile and weak. My  heals for more. You're hiding behind armor and high health, to slow the game down, to compensate for the flaws in your build and your inability to adapt and learn.

DarthXX wrote:
The focus of the build is to be as energy efficient as possible and hence doesn't run dry almost ever. ZB is especially good when you are pumping out of a high set as energy is "worth" more there since you have periods of slow regen

What a load of rubbish. You have 38 maximum Energy to start with, not much to even play with. If you're in your high set, pumping out  and magically triggering the bonus every time, that's 7 Energy every 4.75 seconds. Each pip of Energy regeneration is 1 energy every 3 seconds. If you're missing 2/4 from your high set, that's half of the Energy you gained from  lost, meaning that you just barely break even in your high set, even if you trigger  every time. You should be changing back to your low set as much as possible, and only changing to your high set for a brief moment to cast . Having no Energy management, you have nothing to work with. If you had , or at least a Signet heal, you wouldn't run into the problems that you claim you don't have.

DarthXX wrote:
Dies to heavy hexes

Very few Hexes are deadly, but your build is shut down easily by them. Just  screws you over, because you rely so heavily on . Heavy Hexes make my boon prot stronger. It can survive what other Monks cannot. It's immune to the likes of , can safely heal through , and turns  in its favor.

DarthXX wrote:
Will die to any spikes unless you are packing SB.

 is nerfed and overrated, as mentioned above. Your build can't handle another 10 Energy heal/prot, due to its lack of Energy maintenence and low maximum Energy.  works better than  too, especially alongside . Melandrus boon prot on the other hand is powerful vs spikes. I've reliably antispiked meta's of the past that everyone else considered unstoppable.

Now onto my build...


Is it my turn yet? bounce

DarthXX wrote:
 - Same as me, removes conds, but thanks to boon, this acts as a secondary bar pusher as well

There's no secondary about it. It's a dual function. The importance of its heal or removal is dependant on many factors at the time. One time, I might use  to remove a deep wound because I predict a spike coming with a followup of , while also preparing  to be ready for the next attack combo. Another time, I might draw only bleed and even daze to pump . Another time, I might use it as a pure heal when there are no conditions, saving  in anticipation of a potential Elemental spike. Another time, I might use it to both save an ally as well as myself while I'm dazed and waiting for  and  to recharge.

DarthXX wrote:
 - Small prot, use on melees, again thanks to boon this can be used as a bar pusher if need be

Pre-prot, used as explained above in response to your misuse of . This serves as a multi-functional skill, just like  above and every other skill on the build. I can use it to prot, heal, or even test interrupts to check whether I'm targeted. I can sacrifice it for  ahead of more important skills. It's my slow casting heal/prot, not just for melee but Rangers as well. This can make  much safer to use. I might pull interrupts by cancel/casting , to allow a  to get through and maintained, which in turn allows more freedom with .

DarthXX wrote:
 - Quick cast small prot good for spikes. In this build will work as the primary bar pusher due to low cooldown

This is the most important skill in my build, but my build is not crippled without it, unlike  and  Monks. I've already shown in two threads now how  on a boon prot outmatches both those Elite skills. The delayed effect combines well with  to allow more opportunities of a safer heal from it. It combines with  for a very powerful antispike. In  mode,  create godmode.

DarthXX wrote:
 - This is the first choice that really puzzles me, It can be used as an IMS when needed but also e-boon if getting hit by elemental damage

Like all skills in the build, it's multifunctional. You can use it to kite, run from A to B, gain energy versus Elemental damage. It serves as a mirror reflection of , catering to the other side of things (turtle vs rabbit).  is for tanking, while  is for rushing. Between them both, they cater to almost everything.

DarthXX wrote:
 - Battery of this build, main purpose is to provide energy regen to compensate for the highly inefficient spells that come with boon prot. Also helps a bit vs degen

It doesn't help a little vs degen, it helps a lot, especially against anti-Monk measures and knockdown spam. And it isn't the only battery in the build. , the whole build is a battery of Energy conservation. With , any condition or Hex is converted into +4 Health regeneration and +1 Energy regeneration. This almost always leads to +10 Health regeneration and a total of +6 to +10 Energy regeneration. The build doesn't require , but it functions as a gear that matches anything your opponent throws at you.  is one of the most powerful skills in the game, and greatly underrated and misunderstood. With it, you can heal better than a team of Monks.

DarthXX wrote:
 - This is the second skill that puzzles me a good deal. Free heal for no mana, can also be used as interrupt bait I guess

I've explained this many times in the past, and recently in another thread, part of which was in reference to a comparison between  and . But you don't read or listen, you take shortcuts and assume. I quote - ' is right in the middle of the conditional/unconditional heal you get from . Due to players kiting and chasing frequently,  does not apply the conditional heal as much as you would like to say it does. If you consider both the recharge and casting times,  can be applied every 7 seconds, while  every 9 seconds.  is only worth using at 16 attribute (Superior Divine Favor), which is why you don't know how to use it properly. I regularly antispike with , by predicting damage and cancel/casting. I can even use cancel/casting to pull interrupts. Learn how to use it properly, and how it combines between two  for example. Competent oldschool boon prots knew this, but it's a forgotten technique nowadays.'

 is a core part of a boon prot. If you don't understand its value and technique, then you don't understand boon prot.

DarthXX wrote:
 - The panic move. Lets you spam to your heart's content, due to boon though it's best used when on 0 energy as you will still take the 1e casting penalty otherwise

It isn't a panic move. If you use it as a panic move, you screw it up bad and wind up drained when you need energy the most.  is a trigger happy fool's worst nightmare, especially on a boon prot. You don't want me to use videos, but here's an important one that captures the essence of Divine Spirit.


Here's a model I once drew of Gunstar

DarthXX wrote:
 - Heal power

Adds 63 heal to the 51 natural heal gained through Divine Davor, making it 114. Using a divine Favor +1 weapon set, you can cast/remove it before a match for a 17 Divine Favor  for 66. Due to its fast cast and recharge, stripping it is pointless. I can even use it as a cover for .

DarthXX wrote:
I have nothing against boon prot, I use it sometimes when I feel like dicking around or whatever it's pretty fun to play. The issue I have with this build is that while it is not terrible per se, it can be improved very easily as it has some useless skills. By taking up valuable skill slots these skills make this build vulnerable to much more than it should be

I've never seen you run a boon prot, and I think it's very clear that you're not even familiar with the fundamentals of it. You would change skills and break it before understanding it, like many before you.

DarthXX wrote:
Dies to light hexes, no hex removal

Ahem, . What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.

DarthXX wrote:
The problem hexes, are not the damage ones as they can simply be healed through. The problems come from hexes like Feint, which reduces melee DPS by 50% just like that

Ahem, . What doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger. As for melee teammates, if their build is crap with , it's a sign their build is crap without it.  isn't that bad at all, it just hurts your Warriors so much because you all run Hammer knock down spam. Use a real build and problem solved. A Monk's primary job is to keep everyone alive. Their secondary job is to keep everyone clean. Blind, Daze, Cripple, these are what shut down your teammates.

DarthXX wrote:
There is no answer for skills like Diversion short of locking out a skill (probs storm chaser if I had to choose) a trick which will only work once. Shame shouldn't be a problem since you got a ton of battery skills

I can divert half my skillbar and still heal perfectly fine. Most of the time, I can survive fine without triggering , thanks to .

DarthXX wrote:
Storm Chaser. Why is this skill here? The problem here is that this bar already has 2 e-management skills, Mel's and DS which will let you cast forever and a day. Ontop of that, Mel is a stance so you can't use these 2 skills at the same time. Is it for an IMS then? Fair enough but it burns 10e to use and will likely be canceled soon for Mel's. A far better option if you must have an IMS here is Natural Stride, it makes you run faster, gives you blocking, costs less and is more short lived which is a good thing in this build since you can't stack stances

Read above regarding .  aren't meant to be used at the same time, it all depends on the situation.  is interchangable for , while  is useless in a build like this, due to Enchantments. , like all skills in this build, serves a multifunctional purpose.

Interesting that you claim now that I have overkill Energy management, when you've been claiming the very opposite for a long time, up until this point. I don't just have 2 Energy management skills, the whole skillbar is Energy management of some sort.

DarthXX wrote:
Signet of Devotion. The second dead weight skill on this bar, and here's why. I hear you run 16 DF which is a problem for another day, so this heals 106, less than every other prot skill on this bar will heal. It takes 2 seconds to cast, in the vast majority of cases you will be better off casting RoF over this skill. Even if you have just used RoF. You cast RoF, which triggers the .75s casting delay, then you have to wait only 1.25s more before the cooldown is ready to use again, add another .25s and you got 1.5s when you can drop another RoF. That is faster than the 2s from Devo. Add to this the fact that 2s spells can get rupted by my grandma and there is literally no point in having this here. I mentioned baiting interupts, every skill on this bar casts fast anyway except guardian, there is little reason to bait. It's free to cast? well that don't matter with this build since you got Mel's and DS to pump mana. You can easily replace this with almost any other prot skill and it would be an improvement.

Again,  as explained above, and in other threads and many many times in the past. If you don't understand how vital  is to a boon prot, then you just don't understand boon protting. Go to nameless isle, and try practicing against, say... the Axe Warrior. Learn the techniques involved in using  at the right times, as much as possible, and notice the difference. Without it, you run out of energy in no time, with it you can easily tank it all day at full energy. It's that important to a boon prot.

DarthXX wrote:
Will also die to heavy ench removals, no Boon no hp

Stripping  is laughable. You can't un-boon a boon prot, unless the boon prot is too stupid to recast . Even if you were somehow able to get rid of boon through a lucky  or something, you can still prot fine with 16 Divine Favor (+51) bonus heals.

DarthXX wrote:
Dies to heavy hexes

 lol!

DarthXX wrote:
Lastly, this will die to any sort of KD since you got no prevention short of Guardian

Don't need it. If it's that bad, no knock down prevention is going to save you regardless. You might get a lucky kill in on a rare occasion, but that's about it. Any deep wound or other conditions and hexes applied to shut me down and kill me during the knock down combo, transfers to healing through , for example  Deep Wound, Bleeding, Burning. It soaks up a lot of damage while knocked down. Then there's  between knock downs. Sure, I know... 'quarterknock'. Nothing but a myth. It happens less than 10% of the time, and usually due to someone else spamming knock down mindlessly as well, and getting lucky. I might add that your own knock down prevention 'fleeting stability' can only prevent a single knock down every 10 seconds, at 5 energy cost.

DarthXX wrote:
The reason this build works? The vast majority of AB teams are utter shit hence the bar pushing will keep you alive. Boon prot is a simple build, every build becomes a bar push giving you a shit ton of healing power. However this will fall down against any real opposition

I've used this build successfully everywhere and against virtually everything, that's why I call it a universal build. If you think my PvP experiences, in 6 years and almost 12,000 hours, are limited to bad opponents in AB matches, you're gravely mistaken. I know that you don't even believe your claim here, since it was this very build that defeated you so many times that you began your troll campaign against me in vengeance.

DarthXX wrote:
Wow that took a long time. I take a lot of things for granted with players and assume they know most of this stuff when discussing builds but such is evidently not the case with Terran. This time I'm leaving as few stones unturned as I could think of in the 15 minutes it took me to write this. Hopefully this will illustrate to you the glaring problems with your build in its current state

Right back atcha.

DarthXX wrote:
stance stoppers strip this set up to an enormous extent, by expunging energy making it hard to heal happily.

Wrong. Again, my build does not rely on . If I'm not snared, I can just use  to kite and probably net a great deal of Energy back through that anyway. Or if I know an assassin has , I can just use  from the start and have him chase me in circles getting nowhere. Even against heavy stance strips, I can still use  and net a decent amount of Health and Energy before it gets stripped. Anything designed to take my build down, will always take yours down much easier.

There will always be stones left unturned. Belief that there isn't, is proof that there is. And with that..

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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:20 pm

Terran wrote:

Theorycrafting nonsense. You're fine with 2 weapon sets, a main set and a high energy set. Any other set is negligible and only applies to very rare situations. You theorycraft that you can change weapons between spells, but it doesn't work that way by design. Changing weapons means you're adding a time delay between your spells, destroying your ability to queue spells for a critically faster speed. You're only making it difficult on yourself by fighting with a mechanic designed to stop what you're trying to do. This comes from a narrow minded 'every little bit helps' mentality. It's the same mentality that leads to wammos and misguided builds like this...


Dear terran just because YOU dont know how to swich weaponsets you assume NOONE does, and deem it "narrow minded" claiming it "adds time". That very claim of "adding time" between casts proves that you have in fact not understood how to properly swich weapon sets.


All Weapons Dominator
You spread yourself too thin, believing that it helps you when [blablabla bollocks bullshit ramblings] Intelligence and talent involve problem solving skills that use the information you have.

Dear terran, had you the ability to read and comprehend other peoples posts outside of your predefined mental images you would have noticed that earlier in this thread someone from the old PvX wiki stated that this build was put up as an attempt to vandalize and troll the wiki. IT IS NOT SERIOUS.


DarthXX wrote:
In my inventory, 1 shield for each damage type

I do that myself sometimes. But the effect is too minor to bother most of the time. I usually make them only when there's an overwhelming frequency of certain types of damage. Until then, I usually use a 'Recieved physical damage -2 (while enchanted)' shield inscription for more rounded defence.

This shows once more how delusional you are. The effect of having +18 armor against the biggest source of damage is in no way minor. It translates into ~18% less damage.
Link

DarthXX wrote:
Main hand weapon +30hp/+5e (for armour ignoring damage/ health boost when I get low), and Main hand weapon +5armour/-5e insc (for fighting e-denial)

And while you're screwing around with weapon sets for negligible bonuses, it interferes with skill queues and people die because you can't heal fast enough. But hey, you can just pretend it works, just like all those 'quarterknock'ers who fail 90% of the time.

You are so incredibly delusional. Its baffling. I know i cant hope to pierce the "terranium bubble" you seem to live inside but people can RELIABLY quarterknock.
People can also RELIABLY swap weapons and equipment while being focused on the battlefield.

You prove again that anything you are unable to perform yourself must be a "myth" just because YOU TERRAN the god of Guildwars is TOO FUCKING STUPID to do it right.


[removed a lot of bullshit]

DarthXX wrote:
Added up I sit on 570hp, 35e and +38 armour (+5 wep, +8 shield, +10 shield insc, +15 disciple insig) which is almost a 50% damage reduction (+40ar is 50% reduction)

Rubbish. You have +13 Armor always, while the rest is conditional. While you're screwing around changing all your mods and weapon sets to fit during a battle, you're already dead from being spiked out. Overcomplicating things does not make them more effective, nor does it make it more talent based.

With 38 maximum Energy, you don't need to be shut down. 45 is the safety limit for maximum Energy on a Monk. Any less and you're easily drained in seconds, especially since you rely critically on a costly  for heals and Energy.

You frequently stumble into these idiotic claims simply failing to understand the concept behind it. If you would know the concept of swapping weapons, you would understand that having 35 energy on your shieldset is actually too much. Cue the    mesmer who comes along spamming you. If you only have 25 energy in your current set he can only drain 25 energy. Since wou will be casting stuff it will be more like only 5 or 10 energy. A simple weaponswich before and after every cast can negate a whole character.

570 health is way too high. You only need about 500, a little less can work depending on the build. The truth behind why you run such high health is because you have such slow reaction times due to screwing around with weapon sets and not knowing how to prioritise. The genuine reason for running minor runes and high health is long gone, and was only useful in a specific build environment. You copy those ideas without understanding their purpose, and add your own excuses for using it. Higher health and lower attributes slow the game down. Higher attributes and lower health speed the game up. You only need enough health to survive a spike. Superior runes are there for a reason. If they were imbalanced, they would have been changed, just like major runes were.

Having high health and maximum possible armor provides you with a buffer of time. Time you do not have to use healing yourself but your team. Time your team can use to kill shit while the enemy monk on suprunes is all busy with trying to keep his red bar up against the pressure.

[removed a lot of bullshit]

What a load of rubbish. You have 38 maximum Energy to start with, not much to even play with. If you're in your high set, pumping out  and magically triggering the bonus every time, that's 7 Energy every 4.75 seconds. Each pip of Energy regeneration is 1 energy every 3 seconds. If you're missing 2/4 from your high set, that's half of the Energy you gained from  lost, meaning that you just barely break even in your high set, even if you trigger  every time. You should be changing back to your low set as much as possible, and only changing to your high set for a brief moment to cast . Having no Energy management, you have nothing to work with. If you had , or at least a Signet heal, you wouldn't run into the problems that you claim you don't have.

You show yet again your blatant inability to respect anyone else but yourself. The possibility that Darth is doing just that didnt come to your mind? Just because its Darth you assume he does not use his high set or what? Get the fuck out!

DarthXX wrote:
Dies to heavy hexes

Very few Hexes are deadly, but your build is shut down easily by them. Just  screws you over, because you rely so heavily on . Heavy Hexes make my boon prot stronger. It can survive what other Monks cannot. It's immune to the likes of , can safely heal through , and turns  in its favor.

What IF ...
unlike you the enemy Mesmer has a brain, uses it and casts his fancy hexes on your teammates. What do you do then?
Secondly, while you wait 6 seconds for  to run out, people WILL die.



I've reliably antispiked meta's of the past that everyone else considered unstoppable.

I've used this build successfully everywhere and against virtually everything, that's why I call it a universal build. If you think my PvP experiences, in 6 years and almost 12,000 hours, are limited to bad opponents in AB matches, you're gravely mistaken. I know that you don't even believe your claim here, since it was this very build that defeated you so many times that you began your troll campaign against me in vengeance.


Just for once, show us PROOF of your "achievements". Fight against us. Do SOMETHING to actually back up your delusional ramblings and claims.
OR SHUT THE FUCK UP

Because from all i know, your PvP experience is in fact
Quote :
limited to bad opponents in AB matches


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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:53 am

Derelict, in another thread you state who you are in-game, 'A U R E O L E' (known as the ass-e-hole). You're the guy who used to run nothing but shockwar in AB all the time, and trolled all day. Due to , you died over and over, couldn't cap shrines, or do much of anything for that matter. You used to chase me around trying to solo me, and go crazy at me whenever I killed you, changing sides to troll me in all chat. Myself and others tried to reason with you many times about changing your build and behavior, but all you did was whine. I remember a lot of people getting fed up with you making a fool of yourself with your nonsense, and they started reporting you. Then you suddenly vanished for a while. Perhaps a long awaited ban? Perhaps you got your ass handed to you one too many times? Are you still running that awful derelict of a shockwar build?

Derelict wrote:
Dear terran just because YOU dont know how to swich weaponsets you assume NOONE does, and deem it "narrow minded" claiming it "adds time". That very claim of "adding time" between casts proves that you have in fact not understood how to properly swich weapon sets.

You're adding items to a sequence and pretending it makes things better, when it doesn't. Claiming that overusing weapon sets doesn't get in the way, is a dillusional lie. It's nothing but pure theorycraft, blind copycat mentality. It's amazing how much misguided BS you lot come up with to validate and excuse what you do.

I know very well how to use weapon sets. I also know very well how to not use weapon sets.

Derelict wrote:
Dear terran, had you the ability to read and comprehend other peoples posts outside of your predefined mental images you would have noticed that earlier in this thread someone from the old PvX wiki stated that this build was put up as an attempt to vandalize and troll the wiki. IT IS NOT SERIOUS

It seems you can't even tell one thread from another. It seems you think trolling and vandalism is acceptable behavior. It isn't. I used that build as an example of the narrow minded mentality behind the misuse of weapon sets and splitting your attributes too thin, and how it works against you instead of for you. Take a reality check.

Derelict wrote:
This shows once more how delusional you are. The effect of having +18 armor against the biggest source of damage is in no way minor. It translates into ~18% less damage

You can't even get the numners right. It's 13 Armor (+5 from weapon, +8 from shield), while the additional 25 Armor (+10 from shield inscription, +15 from Armor insignia) is very conditional and theoretical, and comes at a great cost. In a real match, you get far less use of that conditional Armor than you would like to think. The problem is that you rely too much on conditions to do the damage while you spam knockdown and interrupt, you only know a tiny niche of the game that revolves around giving bad players an advantage through simple repetition.

Anyone can interpret and misquote raw numbers to mean anything they want it to mean. It's a common mistake. Learn how to think, instead of trying to mindlessly memorise something and still getting it wrong.

Derelict wrote:
You are so incredibly delusional. Its baffling. I know i cant hope to pierce the "terranium bubble" you seem to live inside but people can RELIABLY quarterknock.
People can also RELIABLY swap weapons and equipment while being focused on the battlefield.

You prove again that anything you are unable to perform yourself must be a "myth" just because YOU TERRAN the god of Guildwars is TOO FUCKING STUPID to do it right.

[removed a lot of bullshit]

You can't pierce the bubble due to a perspective problem on your side. You fail to see that it's you who's in the bubble, and your very attempts to poke at me only reinforce it further against reality. Everything you believe is founded on theorycrafting nonsense, not fact, nor experience. You're seeing only what you want to see.

Derelict wrote:
You frequently stumble into these idiotic claims simply failing to understand the concept behind it. If you would know the concept of swapping weapons, you would understand that having 35 energy on your shieldset is actually too much. Cue the     mesmer who comes along spamming you. If you only have 25 energy in your current set he can only drain 25 energy. Since wou will be casting stuff it will be more like only 5 or 10 energy. A simple weaponswich before and after every cast can negate a whole character.

Not only does he drain your weapon set fully, he triggers  repeatedly and probably kills you. The idea is to not trigger . You're only seeing a small part of the picture, the part you want to see, while ignoring the rest and pretending it doesn't exist.

Derelict wrote:
Having high health and maximum possible armor provides you with a buffer of time. Time you do not have to use healing yourself but your team. Time your team can use to kill shit while the enemy monk on suprunes is all busy with trying to keep his red bar up against the pressure.

[removed a lot of bullshit]

That buffer of time is what you use messing with weapon sets the wrong way and failing. A good player doesn't need to slow the game down, they focus on speed and getting the job done. A bad player tries desperately to slow down the game with passive defence, and excuses it with theorycrafting strategies that don't work how they think it does.

Derelict wrote:
You show yet again your blatant inability to respect anyone else but yourself. The possibility that Darth is doing just that didnt come to your mind? Just because its Darth you assume he does not use his high set or what? Get the fuck out!

Darth made this thread for me to respond in, not you. So you butt out. This thread is nothing about respect, and everything about a desperate oneupmanship attempt by Darth to salvage his flawless losing streak of bullshittery.

I give respect where it's due.

Derelict wrote:
What IF ...
unlike you the enemy Mesmer has a brain, uses it and casts his fancy hexes on your teammates. What do you do then?
Secondly, while you wait 6 seconds for  to run out, people WILL die

Worst case, I can easily afford to divert a skill. Read the post and threads above, this has all been explained many many times. You're just too lazy to read.

Derelict wrote:
Just for once, show us PROOF of your "achievements". Fight against us. Do SOMETHING to actually back up your delusional ramblings and claims.
OR SHUT THE FUCK UP

Because from all i know, your PvP experience is in fact
Quote :
limited to bad opponents in AB matches

More than enough 'proof of my achievements' has been shown if you bothered to look. I don't hide behind an e-peen to validate what I say. I use reason, and I use proof to back up my points. You have nothing but empty claims to back up your theorycrafting nonsense. I've been handing your ass to you in-game for a long time. It's time you stop lying and pretending, and pull yourself out of the mud and clean yourself up. If you want to talk about 'achievements', look no further than your own account on hom.guildwars2.com. You don't even have a PvP title.
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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:56 am

Hola Senor Terran. Very Happy Senor Darth. ^.^ I must say, this has to be my favorite post in the hall of shame. I'm not attempting to troll or contribute to a side. Although I agree with Darth and not Terran, on pretty much every argument they've held in-game and on forum, I do not wish to attempt what many others have since what seems years ago. I simply wish to ask Terran a question or two. For instance, why Terran is bait for so many hectic situations? Rarely if ever have I seen anyone criticize Darth (except Terran). As a matter of fact, I often see Darth rolling with people with Champ rank (this is a GvG title), high Gladiator rank, high Hero rank, high Commander rank. Even with Darth's smaller amount of rank, why on Earth would such company allow his presence? It couldn't be skill over titles and time played, could it? No, that doesn't make sense Senor Terran the amazing, does it? On the other hand, I've only ever seen Terran rolling with, well, Wrath, and me... I met Terran two years ago under my original necromancer I made 5 years ago, I was with a very good monk friend and we followed Terran in battle. Usually I build flag. In this case I did not, I just thought this r12 derv who claimed to have 10 MiL+ balth was a conjure wounding strike Derv, a build I myself enjoyed from time to time. Fortunately for Kiz & I, he turned out to be just that, the part I didn't like, is that he had a fire skill spamming fetish. This leads to another question I have senor Terran. Why must you go against the grain so desperately? Darth, or this A U R E O L E, may not run builds that can capture points, but they almost always, have an ele in their party, by design they are more capable of capturing in Alliance Battles than your so called "Duke Nukem Hamstorm" team. I know you disagree with this, and I know that even if I try my hardest to explain that the strengths of our defined balanced team triumphs over your definition any day of the week, so I will simply ask another question. I hope you do not mind for I am only curious and have no intentions of trolling you. Why do you do you patronize skills such as KDs on this game, or rather discredit? You use meteor this I know, yet since it has an exhaustion every 15-30 seconds, you claim it is worthy. I simply think it is only worthy because its the only fire KD besides MS (even you can lol at this), a benefit to you, thus not on "your" shitter list of KD skills. That's only my opinion, I know. I am sure you could write a college thesis in reply to that one opinion, but I'd rather you not because it is not the point. The point is if certain skills are on Guild Wars and available for use, then why discredit it? Why not counter it? As is intended in video games. =o I once spiked you with my old friend Smart Name in an AB match several times. You won the match sure (due to your possession of and our lack of good allies), I admit that, but it was pathetic at how you acted towards me killing you that day. Just pathetic, I say. I used Wild Throw -> Dev Hammer -> Crushing -> Body Blow -> Hammer Bash. My friend also had the same build but with Yeti Smash. You rattled on (in the match) about the poor choice of skills we had displayed, instead of admitting defeat to the betters in the situation. You do not even attempt to adapt your builds, you simply wait for the world to adapt around you, and this is what I think of as a type of extinction. I do not believe you to be this shining symbol of hope in an era of darkness on this game, as you claim to be, but rather an man of grief. Grief due to your desired vision of this game you cling to so desperately has never came to reality. Look at your forum, the troll (hall of shame) thread has more non-admin replies than any other. Even if I did not disagree with your vision of how the game could be played, I would still simply say it is impossible, thus one should move on and adapt. I've always offered my hand in-game to you because this is what I believe, I do not believe you are simply bad. I've seen you lead, and as long as I'm monking for you and picked the team I want instead of the randoms you accept, then we roll hard mate. You and I have rolled Addy and friends, Dust Loop and friends, and many other balanced teams similar to the people of this so-called hall of shame. This is something Hamstorm, or any of your builds, will not ever do. If you disagree, then I'll Hamstorm or D/E with you and Wrath, and we'll sync against Darth and his choice of team. Perhaps this or that will help you believe in change and set you free from the burdens you carry on this game, that or I'll be damned for writing this and making an account on here. ^.^
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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:47 am

Terran wrote:
You can't even get the numners right. It's 13 Armor (+5 from weapon, +8 from shield), while the additional 25 Armor (+10 from shield inscription, +15 from Armor insignia) is very conditional and theoretical, and comes at a great cost. In a real match, you get far less use of that conditional Armor than you would like to think. The problem is that you rely too much on conditions to do the damage while you spam knockdown and interrupt, you only know a tiny niche of the game that revolves around giving bad players an advantage through simple repetition.

Oh look, the first crack in the bubble. Since youre running out of "arguments" youre jumping right from "armor" to your abhorred "knockdown" and how i / we "rely on conditions".
 anyone?
affraid
Conditions!
Really, youre not making any sense.


Terran wrote:
More than enough 'proof of my achievements' has been shown if you bothered to look. I don't hide behind an e-peen to validate what I say. I use reason, and I use proof to back up my points.

No, all you do is using this phrase over and over again.

Wikipedia wrote:

In most areas, evidence is drawn from experience of the world around us[...]
You are not "the world around you". In fact we are part of "the world around you". What you present as "proof" is simply your isolated point of view, and in no way proof to anything (except for the existence of the Terranium bubble).


Terran wrote:
You have nothing but empty claims to back up your theorycrafting nonsense. I've been handing your ass to you in-game for a long time. It's time you stop lying and pretending, and pull yourself out of the mud and clean yourself up. If you want to talk about 'achievements', look no further than your own account on hom.guildwars2.com. You don't even have a PvP title.

Youre right about that, i dont have a PvP title, im only R3 and i have 5 champ points. I can however look back on over 3200 GvG matches, wich are probably 3195 more than you ever played.



And finally, the best straight line you've ever given us, going straight back at you:

Terran wrote:
Everything you believe is founded on theorycrafting nonsense, not fact, nor experience. You're seeing only what you want to see.

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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:17 pm

And here I was hoping, first response in and you already broken rule 2.
DarthXX wrote:
2. None of those stupid pictures or videos, they're a waste of bandwidth.
No one watches them Terran, just trying to save you time searching for them. You lose 10 internet points.

Well I think purified covered most of what I wanted to say.
Just a few things to add. Weapon sets, are a bonus terran, a bonus you get for nothing short of being able to push a few keys in succession. If you can fix a problem with just weapons and no need for skills (eg using lowset to hide mana) why not take it.

Terran wrote:
Theorycrafting nonsense. You're fine with 2 weapon sets, a main set and a high energy set. Any other set is negligible and only applies to very rare situations. You theorycraft that you can change weapons between spells, but it doesn't work that way by design. Changing weapons means you're adding a time delay between your spells, destroying your ability to queue spells for a critically faster speed. You're only making it difficult on yourself by fighting with a mechanic designed to stop what you're trying to do. This comes from a narrow minded 'every little bit helps' mentality. It's the same mentality that leads to wammos and misguided builds like this...

1. It's not theorycrafting if I do it in practice. (Also applies to this
Terran wrote:
Swapping weapons to use an extended length  as a cover enchantment for  is theorycrafting nonsense
2. You claim to have this supreme knowledge of the game, yet you don't know you can hit cancel (default key esc) to remove the delay when swapping wep sets? I am disappoint, one of the most basic things about wep sets.
3. Queuing skills is a bad idea since its so predictable.

Terran wrote:
Rubbish. You have +13 Armor always, while the rest is conditional. While you're screwing around changing all your mods and weapon sets to fit during a battle, you're already dead from being spiked out. Overcomplicating things does not make them more effective, nor does it make it more talent based.

With 38 maximum Energy, you don't need to be shut down. 45 is the safety limit for maximum Energy on a Monk. Any less and you're easily drained in seconds, especially since you rely critically on a costly  for heals and Energy.

1. Well I have draw, getting a condition on me is no problem.
2. I guess my shield armour is conditional on me swapping to my fire shield when taking fire damage? Pretty easy to do.
3. 35e is in my shield set (25e if im using low set), I have 40e with my staff set, and 72e in my high set.
4. ZB isn't costly, it costs 3e unless you use it like a retard.

Terran wrote:
 in your build: 192
 in my build: 116-231

RoF in your build costs twice as much and isn't guaranteed to get anywhere near 231.

Terran wrote:
I've explained this many times in the past, and recently in another thread, part of which was in reference to a comparison between  and . But you don't read or listen, you take shortcuts and assume. I quote - ' is right in the middle of the conditional/unconditional heal you get from . Due to players kiting and chasing frequently,  does not apply the conditional heal as much as you would like to say it does. If you consider both the recharge and casting times,  can be applied every 7 seconds, while  every 9 seconds.  is only worth using at 16 attribute (Superior Divine Favor), which is why you don't know how to use it properly. I regularly antispike with , by predicting damage and cancel/casting. I can even use cancel/casting to pull interrupts. Learn how to use it properly, and how it combines between two  for example. Competent oldschool boon prots knew this, but it's a forgotten technique nowadays.'

1. I wasn't even comparing Devotion to rejuv, I was explaining how its outdone by RoF on ur own build in virtually every situation.
2. If a spike can be predicted 2 seconds ahead of time and be stopped with a 106 heal it is the world's most fail spike. Likely you are mistaking spike for pressure.

Terran wrote:
 can actually make you prone to interrupts like

Lol I know its minor but gotta talk to this.
1. Bull's isn't an interrupt, its a KD.
2. Fleeting Stability prevents KDs.

Terran wrote:
If you're in your high set, pumping out  and magically triggering the bonus every time

Not magic, I have health bars turned on.

Terran wrote:
As for melee teammates, if their build is crap with , it's a sign their build is crap without it.

I guess your melee builds are immune to feint since they don't actually use melee skills.

Terran wrote:
DarthXX wrote:
Dies to heavy hexes

 lol!

 lol!

Terran wrote:
I might add that your own knock down prevention 'fleeting stability' can only prevent a single knock down every 10 seconds, at 5 energy cost.

I might add that's all you need, as I explained.

Terran wrote:
Anyone can interpret and misquote raw numbers to mean anything they want it to mean.
Terran wrote:
But hey, you can just pretend it works, just like all those 'quarterknock'ers who fail 90% of the time.

Anyone can make up bullshit statistics too. I know I made a rule but I guess we can now both have -10 internet points together.

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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:55 am

Demonoid wrote:
I'm not attempting to troll or contribute to a side.

The rest of your post makes this pork chop of a lie crystal clear
Quote :
Although I agree with Darth and not Terran, on pretty much every argument they've held in-game and on forum, I do not wish to attempt what many others have since what seems years ago

And what is that precisely? A failure to troll and grief in my presence without consequence? You agree with Darth, yet you can't actually back him up with anything but assumptions and empty claims, conveniently ignoring the detailed facts in my post.

Demonoid wrote:
I simply wish to ask Terran a question or two. For instance, why Terran is bait for so many hectic situations?

I might say the same of your guild and its allies. You're the leader of a historically notorious troll guild, which is an integral part of a larger troll community/infestation that has destroyed the Guild Wars community, and yet you claim to me personally not to do any trolling, while admitting that your members do. You might learn how bait works. A hunter doesn't lay bait for prey, they lay prey for a hunter. A hunter doesn't hunt bait, they hunt prey. There is no hunt in bait. The prey is the top hunter's disguise.

Just who do you think is hunting who?


Quote :
Rarely if ever have I seen anyone criticize Darth (except Terran).

They used to frequently, then they either left in disgust or went silent. Even now, I get pm's in support of standing up to that crap. Understand what's going on. If you see a village idiot eating poop in the street, and noone walks up to tell him not to do it, does that mean they support him? If everyone else stops using the street, does that mean they support him? They don't walk up to him and tell him to piss off because they don't want to deal with him and get shit thrown at them. They try to ignore it and hope someone else deals with it.

Demonoid wrote:
I often see Darth rolling with people with Champ rank (this is a GvG title), high Gladiator rank, high Hero rank, high Commander rank

And this means what? Do you really think farming these titles determines a talented or experienced player? If anything, it's likely a sign of a mindless Flavor of the Month farmer. Guild versus Guild has been changed countless times to counter the plague of exploits that have persisted around it for years. Gladiator rank was so exploited in Team Arena and syncing in Random Arena, that they deleted Team Arena and redesigned Random Arena and the title. Commander title progress is now removed from the game alongside the Hero Battle arena it was built for, because it was so broken and exploited that they decided it was unfixable and needed to be deleted before more harm was done. And lastly, Hero title is considered the 'idiot' title due to it being the only title to live through the whole game's lifespan, and experiencing far more changes and exploits than all the other PvP arenas put together.

Good players don't justify their abilities by hiding behind heavily exploited titles. That's what bad players do in an attempt to fit in with the big boys. Good players justify their abilities by proving them directly in combat.

All I've ever seen Darth play with is a small group of fellow trolls. He doesn't even pug. He claims the reason is because everyone else isn't good enough for him and not worth his time, but the truth is he has such low confidence in his abilities that he's scared of playing in an unknown environment where his team doesnt hold his hand with specific builds that exploit cheap shots to win.

There's a simple solution to his confidence problems: Stand up, step outside the comfort box and explore the world beyond. You'll never never know if you never never go.

Demonoid wrote:
Even with Darth's smaller amount of rank, why on Earth would such company allow his presence? It couldn't be skill over titles and time played, could it? No, that doesn't make sense Senor Terran the amazing, does it?

You won't find a highly talented player regularly playing with Darth and his ego. Rank does not equal talent. I've made this excessively clear in several threads at this point. Your standards of what defines a good and a bad player are very different to mine.

You also won't find me using self worshipping names like 'Terran the Amazing', whereas you will find Darth using many such names, like 'Darth the Awesome'. Your character name tells a lot about your attitude and perspective.

Darth: title of a Sith Lord or Master in the Star Wars universe, a representation of evil or 'the dark side'. The dark side of the force draws energy from uncontrolled emotional rage, resulting in the pursuit of instant gratification and short term self serving goals, which in turn results in a destructive vampiric disposition.

Demonoid: a website and BitTorrent tracker (revolving around illegal downloads) created by an anonymous Serb known only by the pseudonyms "Deimos" and "Zajson". Deimos: second moon of Mars, named after a figure representing dread in Greek Mythology. Demon: a supernatural being from various religions, occultisms, literatures, and folklores that is described as something that is not human and, in ordinary (almost universal) usage, malevolent.

Terran: from the word 'terra', relates to land or the planet Earth. Modern usage is equivalent to 'terrestrial of' or 'comes from', a focus of distinction between ones origin/ancestry and current environment/culture. Using the name Terran without a target (like Earth Terran, Australian Terran, etc) is as generic of a name as one can get. It's as simple as saying, 'I am', without claiming any special priveliges that come with a name, which serves as a symbol of a lack of self centeredness.

To compare: when you announce yourself, you also announce an identity or status you want to project, and hence indulge your ego and comfort zone in a dance of appeal fallacies instead of dealing with the point at hand directly. Whereas I simply announce my presence or purpose, and get right to work on the point at hand. Meanwhile, you guys project yourselves with names that represent evil and negativity, which tells a lot about your mentalities, perspectives and intentions.

Your name says a lot about you.

Demonoid wrote:
I've only ever seen Terran rolling with, well, Wrath, and me

For a while now, I've exclusively pugged. I never wait around to play with certain people unless they've already asked to join or recovering from a disconnect. You know this all too well. You've seen me with random players many many times. Often, I end up being invited or pm'd by players who I pug with regularly, because they've regularly seen me play well. There were times in the past where I regularly did PvE/PvP with specific teams, but the vast majority of them either don't play anymore or only play very rarely. I prefer to pug nowadays because it allows me to meet a lot of different players and show them different builds and ways of playing the game. Just like the vast majority of the PvP community in the past, I gave up on 'high end Guild Wars PvP' when Arenanet gave up on its players. High end PvP in Guild Wars was once a potential that never came to fruition. If you think the top of the anti-social pryamid in Guild Wars represents a quality refinement of human talent, you're gravely mistaken and taking the bait of a manipulative sales gimmick.

Demonoid wrote:
I met Terran two years ago under my original necromancer I made 5 years ago, I was with a very good monk friend and we followed Terran in battle. Usually I build flag. In this case I did not, I just thought this r12 derv who claimed to have 10 MiL+ balth was a conjure wounding strike Derv, a build I myself enjoyed from time to time. Fortunately for Kiz & I, he turned out to be just that, the part I didn't like, is that he had a fire skill spamming fetish.

I don't think my Dervish Hamstorm build wasn't even around two years ago. Regardless, it worked so well that it could solo whole teams and capture shrines better than most Elementalists, and this was proven consistently. Back when Wrath and myself used to run 2 of them, anything that didn't die in the aoe was instantly spiked out by the Scythe attacks. Over half the time, the opposing teams would just give up, Darth included. We even convinced Darth to come with us on a run, where we repeatedly cut through everything like a hot knife through butter (even 2-3 teams camping the central resurrection shrine in Grenz), leaving Darth with little need to heal. His convenient excuse was, 'all those teams were bad'. Sure, some of them were, but most of them were above par. They just couldn't stand up to the firepower of the original Dervish Hamstorm.

As for claiming I had 10 million balthazar faction, that is a lie. I'm not the kind of person who goes around ranking people and showing off my faction, and I don't even have 10 million Balthazar faction due to being stuck at maximum faction for a long time (thanks to unlocking everything early through pve) and having nothing to spend it on. When tourmanent coins were added, I used my Balthazar faction on several stacks of them which I never used. I gave many away, but still have 500 left. Because of the faction lock and lack of worthwhile rewards, I was stuck at maximum Balthazar faction didn't progress my total until Zaishen keys were added to the game.


Demonoid wrote:
This leads to another question I have senor Terran. Why must you go against the grain so desperately? Darth, or this A U R E O L E, may not run builds that can capture points, but they almost always, have an ele in their party, by design they are more capable of capturing in Alliance Battles than your so called "Duke Nukem Hamstorm" team. I know you disagree with this, and I know that even if I try my hardest to explain that the strengths of our defined balanced team triumphs over your definition any day of the week, so I will simply ask another question.

You ask a question, add false information, then throw your hands in the air, give up and jump to another question.

It's not me that's going against the grain, it's you. You're too short sighted and ignorant to see the bigger picture.

You can sit there making things up all day, it doesn't make it true. Your builds revolve around dumbing the game down with simple cheapshot tactics over and over, making them very easy to predict and counter. You claim that only one player in your team can cap shrines, so without that player, youre effectively useless. Alliance battles is about capturing shrines, not killing players. You can kill every player on the map as soon as they spawn, over and over all match, and still lose, because the points and bonuses you gain from shrines trump kills. And chasing for kills does not remove them from the game and prevent them from capturing shrines, because you're removing your whole team from the game to do it. If it takes more than a few seconds to get a kill, you're wasting your time. Any decent AB'er knows this, and focusses on capping with speed, only stopping for quick kills as neccessary. Meanwhile, you lot run around chasing players with knockdown spam, believing that you're contributing to a win when you're being nothing but an annoyance by doing it. You have seen evidence of all this countless times, but hold onto the griefing because you choose instant gratification over self improvement.

How many times have you seen people die in my , even your guild members? Can you really sum it all down to luck and newbies? On my last run with you, you mocked your guild member for exactly that, dying in a  while he tried to knockdown spam me with a kiddy hammer build. How many times have you seen me both kill and cap as well or better than whole teams? With the original Dervish Hamstorm, it wasn't uncommon to take on a whole team solo and still cap and survive. With Judge Fury, it was common. But it doesn't matter how much proof is shown to you, because you don't deal with facts, you deal with emotional indulgence. And that's why you will never understand anything outside your little box, until you let go of the emotional indulgent teddy bear of instant gratification.

Demonoid wrote:
I hope you do not mind for I am only curious and have no intentions of trolling you.

You're in denial about trolling, torn between two worlds.

Quote :
Why do you do you patronize skills such as KDs on this game, or rather discredit? You use meteor this I know, yet since it has an exhaustion every 15-30 seconds, you claim it is worthy. I simply think it is only worthy because its the only fire KD besides MS (even you can lol at this), a benefit to you, thus not on "your" shitter list of KD skills. That's only my opinion, I know. I am sure you could write a college thesis in reply to that one opinion, but I'd rather you not because it is not the point. The point is if certain skills are on Guild Wars and available for use, then why discredit it? Why not counter it? As is intended in video games. =o I once spiked you with my old friend Smart Name in an AB match several times. You won the match sure (due to your possession of and our lack of good allies), I admit that, but it was pathetic at how you acted towards me killing you that day. Just pathetic, I say. I used Wild Throw -> Dev Hammer -> Crushing -> Body Blow -> Hammer Bash. My friend also had the same build but with Yeti Smash. You rattled on (in the match) about the poor choice of skills we had displayed, instead of admitting defeat to the betters in the situation. You do not even attempt to adapt your builds, you simply wait for the world to adapt around you, and this is what I think of as a type of extinction.

Begin by reading 'The smackdown on knockdown' article I wrote here.

Imagine a chess competition. It's very popular, everyone plays. A couple of children are in the competition, as well as the local village idiot. There are no restrictions to join apart from the $100 membership fee, and with the rare exception, it's of a high standard of competitiveness and sportsmanship. Now lets say one of the children complain that they keep losing, and threaten to pull out of the competition, withdraw their annual $100 membership fee and go on a public rant about how tough the game is. Now the head management only has an interest in money and couldn't give a damn about chess. They take this loss of income seriously. They tell the guys running the competition to cater to this child and let them win, so they will stay and hand back their $100 membership fee and not rant about how tough the game is for new players, which would discourage new membership profits. The solution they came up with was to change the game rules so that you could trade your chess pieces for free move cards at the start of the game. The vast majority of the chess community was outraged, and never considered using such a disgraceful move. At first, only this child used this tactic, allowing him to free move his way to victory every game, or almost. Because this child was so bad at chess, he still lost a lot of games even with his free moves. Eventually, he won a competition with his 'free move strategy', which caused a lot of the top end players to leave in disgust. The management, seeing their error, decided to do nothing about it at first, in fear of making things even worse. Due to there being no consequences of using this cheapshot strategy of free moving your way to victory, the other children picked up on this and began doing it as well. Much to the satisfaction of the management, the problem seemed to fix itself. The children that used this cheapshot strategy in the competition were talking about it in school, about how they beat the adult chess masters at their own game, with this cool megacard move. The competition became swarmed with other children wanting to have a go at beating the 'pro chess players', so many that it began to offset the mass exodus of genuine players in the chess comp that left in disgust. Having so few 'pro' players to beat anymore these new children looked upon the first children as the new 'pro's' to beat, trying to learn how they beat the old pro's and made their way to the top. Even the village idiot was in on this, and soon there were as many village idiots in the competition than there were villages. Sales were up, the clueless management was happy with the new amazing chess game they invented. But it didn't last long. After a doing a survey, they realised that although they had an unflux of new players, these players didn't stay long enough to renew their membership in the following years, unlike the original players. They decide, 'fuck it, the game is dead, lets do it over and syphon what we can out of this before its gone'. They add more cheapshot options to constantly give the bottom end players a chance, trying to appeal to new casual players by giving them a chance against the so called 'pro's'. Unfortunately, most people saw through this scam and refused to join. But some did, enough for the management to get enough profit to repeat the same scam a few times. By the time it all ended, it wasn't even recognizable as the game it was originally. Sucker to the fucker, who ought to be bought, the addicted slaves who crave, to grief and not get caught.


The moral of the story is: just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Understand why such a thing was added in the first place. It's nothing more than a cheap shot offered to weak players in order to squeeze more sales out of a game that was falling apart at the seams and a community they gave up on. The decision to make Guildwars 2 was due to game engine limitations that would take too much time to work around. They gave up on the game and fucked over the community in order to get more money from untalented players and feed a second attempt at it. There's a horde of untalented gamers who are willing to invest a lot of time and money into being superior over others in a meaningless and easy way. Repeat simple task for 1000 hours, flaunt epeen. Just take a look at facebook games like farmville. Farmville has more than 10 times the players of World of Warcraft. Ponder why. You're not playing the game, the game is playing you.

Demonoid wrote:
I do not believe you to be this shining symbol of hope in an era of darkness on this game, as you claim to be, but rather an man of grief. Grief due to your desired vision of this game you cling to so desperately has never came to reality

Right back at you. What have you done to make the world a better place lately? You lead a troll guild in an online video game where consequences are minimal, while denying you do any of the trolling yourself. You're part of the cause of that darkness, and a contagion of it, fitting with the name you chose.

Demonoid wrote:
Look at your forum, the troll (hall of shame) thread has more non-admin replies than any other

So? There's only one admin, myself. I didn't make this website for a popularity contest. I made it to tell it how it is. The fact that your troll community became so magnetised here is a sign I hit the bullseye. I suggest you thoroughly read the content of the hall of shame threads without turning a blind eye to the evidence provided.

Demonoid wrote:
Even if I did not disagree with your vision of how the game could be played, I would still simply say it is impossible, thus one should move on and adapt

Moving on and adapting, hey? When was the last time you made your own build? When was the last time you adapted to anything? If there's one skill in the game that goes with the word 'adapt', it's , a skill that I use and you do not. I adapt, you do not.

Demonoid wrote:
I've always offered my hand in-game to you because this is what I believe, I do not believe you are simply bad. I've seen you lead, and as long as I'm monking for you and picked the team I want instead of the randoms you accept, then we roll hard mate. You and I have rolled Addy and friends, Dust Loop and friends, and many other balanced teams similar to the people of this so-called hall of shame. This is something Hamstorm, or any of your builds, will not ever do. If you disagree, then I'll Hamstorm or D/E with you and Wrath, and we'll sync against Darth and his choice of team. Perhaps this or that will help you believe in change and set you free from the burdens you carry on this game, that or I'll be damned for writing this and making an account on here. ^.^

You have never 'offered your hand in-game to me'. You have asked to play with me at times, because as you say, 'we roll hard mate'. But at the same time, you say that my hamstorm builds are incapable of that. Yet it was those very builds I 'rolled hard' with. The very reason Darth began his troll campaign against me was because I kept 'rolling' him with builds he didn't understand, and he became offended. You're asking proof for something that has been proved first hand so many times now that you're sounding like a broken record.

Derelict wrote:
Oh look, the first crack in the bubble. Since youre running out of "arguments" youre jumping right from "armor" to your abhorred "knockdown" and how i / we "rely on conditions".
 anyone?

Conditions!
Really, youre not making any sense.

I use conditions, I dont rely on them. My Dervish Hamstorm AB build for example uses , and can capture most shrines more efficiently without even using it. The problem is that your reasoning skills and understanding of the game is so limited that you believe a build revolves around its Elite skill. By relying on conditions, I'm talking about things like interrupt spamming rangers that rely on poison for damage, and Warriors that chase a crippled target all day until it dies, instead of interacting and changing targets to find an opening. When you can't do your job reliably without a condition, you're relying on it. And this doesn't just apply to conditions, it applies to all utilities. Utilities should assist you, they should never be a requirement for a build to work, and they should especially not be used as a tool to conpensate for a lack of player skill.

Derelict wrote:
all you do is using this phrase over and over again

Then stop making me repeat myself and bother to read.

Derelict wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:
In most areas, evidence is drawn from experience of the world around us[...]
You are not "the world around you". In fact we are part of "the world around you". What you present as "proof" is simply your isolated point of view, and in no way proof to anything (except for the existence of the Terranium bubble).

I am a part of the world around me. You are a part of the world around me. Your opinions are not. They are a fabricated illusion that exist as a part of the world inside you, seperate from you as a part of the world around me.

The full sentence from wikipedia that you're trying to misquote goes like this, 'In most areas, evidence is drawn from experience of the world around us, with science obtaining its evidence from nature, law obtaining its evidence from witnesses and forensic investigation, and so on.' The entry is an article about proof. The opening sentence says, 'A proof is sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition.' Notice how I'm the only one who has shown evidence here, while all you fools can do is ignore it and make continuous empty claims.

Once an ignoramus: a fool
Twice an ignoramus: a fool and a tool
Thrice an ignoramus: a fool a tool and a liar

Ever notice how the more you poke the 'terranium bubble', the bigger it gets? That's because you're the ones inside it, poking it from the inside and making it expand. But as a bubble expands, it gets weaker until it bursts. And the weaker it gets, the more you poke, and the more desperate you are to reinforce it.

Derelict wrote:
Youre right about that, i dont have a PvP title, im only R3 and i have 5 champ points. I can however look back on over 3200 GvG matches, wich are probably 3195 more than you ever played

You could at least make up a believable number up. But hey, lets pretend you have played 3,200 GvG matches. If you accumulated a mere 5 champion points in so many matches (especially by todays appallingly low standards) what does that say about your understanding of the game and ability to improve? Even at the prime of PvP, any group of good players could easily smurf their way up the ladder in no time (many did). You must have lost at least 3000 of them to avoid getting a champion rank. Perhaps its time you stop using Shockwar and learn the other 99.9% of the game?

Derelict wrote:
And finally, the best straight line you've ever given us, going straight back at you:

Terran wrote:
Terran wrote:
Everything you believe is founded on theorycrafting nonsense, not fact, nor experience. You're seeing only what you want to see.

And finally, the best line you've ever given us: i dont have a PvP title...I...look back on over 3200 GvG matches.

It's not that you can't do better, it's that you don't try to do better.

Darth wrote:
And here I was hoping, first response in and you already broken rule 2

Ah yes, a nonsense rule you conjured up and broken by yourself before I even posted. You must be getting desperate to catch me out on something, huh?


Darth wrote:
No one watches them Terran, just trying to save you time searching for them

I watch them.

Darth wrote:
You lose 10 internet points

You lose 10 credibility points.

Darth wrote:
1. It's not theorycrafting if I do it in practice. (Also applies to this
Terran wrote:
Swapping weapons to use an extended length  as a cover enchantment for  is theorycrafting nonsense

I can paint speed stripes on my mouse to make my character run faster. It's not theorycrafting if I do it in practice, right?

Darth wrote:
2. You claim to have this supreme knowledge of the game, yet you don't know you can hit cancel (default key esc) to remove the delay when swapping wep sets? I am disappoint, one of the most basic things about wep sets

I share my knowledge to benefit others, while you flaunt what little knowledge you have to benefit yourself. I don't make claims of supremacy, but you do. I claim that I am at LEAST par, while letting direct experience prove itself beyond that. What I'm saying is that the standard set is far below par, and that you can all easily play at par or higher, if you bothered to clean yourselves up and step out of the mud and denial.

Pressing Escape does not remove the delay when changing weapon sets. That delay you percieve is due to cancelling the action you're currently engaged in, like an auto attack or a spell for example (ability locked during aftercast delay making it useless in a Spellcasting combination). This is an important and deliberately programmed mechanic to prevent you from queueing a weapon swap between actions, forcing a delay of manual control. This is a fundamental basic of weapon swapping, forcing a learned skill of knowing when to change weapons and when not to. It works in situations like casting Attunements or an Energy boost when you're drained at a critical moment. It doesn't work by integrating it inside skill combinations, by design. Even in an alternate universe where it did work how you claim it does, it would still be a bad idea because it interferes too much with other actions, especially on a qwerty keyboard. You can claim otherwise until the sky falls in, but you can't shoot a sniper rifle while juggling balls, no matter how good you claim you are. Even the worlds best snipers will tell you this.

Theorycrafting nonsense, nothing more than an attempt to complicate things to pretend you're smart and talented. So keep on painting them speed stripes, Danielson.


Lesson 5: Clean the toilet

Darth wrote:
3. Queuing skills is a bad idea since its so predictable

Refusing to heal when you need to is a bad idea, since people die.

'Instead of saving that ele, Ima run around randomly! That'll really confuse em!'


Darth wrote:
1. Well I have draw, getting a condition on me is no problem

=
+=
+=
++=
++=
++

Darth wrote:
2. I guess my shield armour is conditional on me swapping to my fire shield when taking fire damage? Pretty easy to do

If you're against a full type-x damage team or enough type-x damage to risk death or safely negate type-x damage more than what you would get through greater attention to kiting, then sure. Against anything else, you're wasting potentially critical time taking a big risk with little to no benefit, and better off using weaker, rounded mods. But hey, you're so good you can fire a sniper rifle and juggle at the same time, right? I bet you can switch your fire shield for that , switch back to your blunt shield for that  then your slashing shield for that , and antispike 3 people at the same time through your magical Escape button!

Theres a time and a place for weapon set/shield swaps. That time is usually best before you're even attacked or during a safety zone very early in the battle. You should only change again when it's important enough to do so, safely executed during a window of opportunity. Changing back and forth at a whim for negligible bonuses, only has a negative impact.

Darth wrote:
3. 35e is in my shield set (25e if im using low set), I have 40e with my staff set, and 72e in my high set

35 Energy isn't enough. 25 Energy is completely dysfunctional after the first few seconds of combat. 40 Energy only works in very rare situations and builds, and even then it's pushing it. And 72 Energy in your high set? My Warrior Hamstorm's high set has more at 74! 45-55 Energy is the standard to go by for a Monk, else you're shut down and drained far too easily.

Darth wrote:
4. ZB isn't costly, it costs 3e unless you use it like a retard

It does not reliably cost 3 Energy unless you deliberately wait until your target gets below 50%, which is why you run weak 600+ Health builds in order to get away with it more safely. A good Monk will start healing at 75-80%. A bad Monk will start healing at 50%. Against anything decent, if you wait until 50%, it's already too late and they are dead by the time you finish casting, especially if you're using spells slower than 1/4. With  and , you're not supposed to wait to trigger the bonuses every time. The bonuses are supposed to be a life saving bonus to keep you going. they're a side effect that you can influence but not control, by predicting spikes and casting early. This is why almost everyone prefers  over . They can use it more freely, with a lower penalty for healing over 50%. It can be used at 75%, and if the target gets spiked, it triggers a double heal (or Energy return in the case of ). You're not supposed to wait to trigger it every time, nor is it designed to trigger 100% of the time. This is just nonsense youre making up to fill the critical weakness in all  builds, which are not that popular as a result of that weakness.

Darth wrote:

Terran wrote:

 in your build: 192
 in my build: 116-231

RoF in your build costs twice as much and isn't guaranteed to get anywhere near 231

 has a 1/4 cast time, meaning that you can antispike with it during a heavy hitting combo acurately, reliably triggering the higher end of its range most or all of the time. Any wise prot knows the power of reversal of fortune and when to use it.

 in your build: 3...10 Energy. Unreliable.
 in my build: 1...3...6 Energy. Reliable cost by choice.

Don't you see? My boon prot does what you're trying and failing to do: combining the best of heals and prots in one. So long as you use , your build is bottlenecked. Countless people have gone over this issue many times in the past to try and fix the problem, and they all came to the conclusion that as helpful as it is to bring higher attribute prots,  is better.

Darth wrote:
1. I wasn't even comparing Devotion to rejuv, I was explaining how its outdone by RoF on ur own build in virtually every situation

 is outdone by every other skill on your bar, does that mean you should only use ? You compared  to  in another thread before this one, and I quote, 'Rejuv heals more than signet of devotion, the condition is ridiculously easy to fulfill. Also devo is 2s cast, just terrible'.

I also quote samples of my patient and repeated explanations to your recurring lack of understanding about  and your chronic refusal to read and learn...

1. With a Boon Prot, there is a neccessary skill and technique that almost noone knows about these days. It involves . Whenever you cast a spell, especially , follow it up with signet of devotion. If the target doesn't need a heal by the time its almost cast, tap forward to cancel it and recast it again immediately. I call this a cancel/cast. By doing this, you can get a lot of free heals in and conserve a great deal of energy. And due to  being a signet, there is no aftercast delay. Try doing  +  + , and notice how fast the second  heals after . The after effect of triggering  further cuts down the heal time delay while casting . Most players consider signet of devotion as being crap, but they simply dont understand it and the mechanics involved. You can even use  to pull interrupts and avoid them via cancel/cast.

2. I can also heal myself through  to bypass  (as well as ).

3. You can't just spam your skills on recharge, you have to prioritise and throw in  as much as safely possible. A bad player will run a boon prot and run out of energy fast, a good player won't.

4.  is right in the middle of the conditional/unconditional heal you get from . Due to players kiting and chasing frequently,  does not apply the conditional heal as much as you would like to say it does. If you consider both the recharge and casting times,  can be applied every 7 seconds, while  every 9 seconds.  is only worth using at 16 attribute (Superior Divine Favor), which is why you don't know how to use it properly. I regularly antispike with , by predicting damage and cancel/casting. I can even use cancel/casting to pull interrupts. Learn how to use it properly, and how it combines between two  for example. Competent oldschool boon prots knew this, but it's a forgotten technique nowadays.

I also quote myself from this very thread, ' is a core part of a boon prot. If you don't understand its value and technique, then you don't understand boon prot'.

Darth wrote:
2. If a spike can be predicted 2 seconds ahead of time and be stopped with a 106 heal it is the world's most fail spike. Likely you are mistaking spike for pressure

Then you and your troll buddies must fail at spike regularly.

 can be followed up with a quick access booned  and/or a booned , suffering no aftercast penalty from .

Darth wrote:
Lol I know its minor but gotta talk to this.
1. Bull's isn't an interrupt, its a KD

Just a typo, which should be obvious. Instead of interrupt, I meant 'skills' or 'knockdowns'. What I meant to say was, ' can actually make you prone to knock downs like  and interrupts like . Knock down also functions as an interrupt, even going so far as 'interrupting' your movement. The point is that  is weak.

Darth wrote:
2. Fleeting Stability prevents KDs

 prevents knock down as much as  functions as a block. Once every 10 seconds is very weak and ineffective, especially when it only lasts for a few seconds regardless of triggering, and requires you to spec moderately into its attribute with a build that is already spread far too thin.  is a passive spam dual function buff, only worth using on a defensive Dervish running build. It's popular and overused only because it's so simple to use, 'spam on recharge'. Preventing a single knockdown once every 10 seconds means nothing when you're facing a team of knockdown spammers that continuously apply their own individual knockdowns every few seconds. It's as effective as fighting a bull with a red glove.  on the other hand shines in such a situation.

[quote="Darth"]
Terran wrote:
If you're in your high set, pumping out  and magically triggering the bonus every time
Not magic, I have health bars turned on

You're so good that you can trigger  bonus every time? Pull the other one. You let people die regularly, because your build is so crippled that the only way you can heal is by letting people almost die before you react. You need everyone to run 600+ health and low attributed broken defensive builds, just so you can have a chance to heal, because you take so damn long to react. This might work against low damage newbies and very bad players who attack the same target all day with broken builds. It doesn't work against anything decent.

Darth wrote:
I guess your melee builds are immune to feint since they don't actually use melee skills

My melee builds are not as hurt by  because I don't run Hammer knockdown spam.

Quote :
Darth wrote:
Dies to heavy hexes
Terran wrote:
 lol!
Darth wrote:
 lol!

lol! lol!

Quote :
Terran wrote:
I might add that your own knock down prevention 'fleeting stability' can only prevent a single knock down every 10 seconds, at 5 energy cost
Darth wrote:
I might add that's all you need, as I explained

It's not all you need. You only use it because it's as simple as spamming it on recharge.  is superior to , but requires you to use it correctly, else it will work against you. I even showed exactly how much you're crippling your build by spreading attribute points too thin for it, by rearranging your attributes to gain 13 extra heal every spell. Maximum Protection Prayers and low Divine Favor, what were you thinking? Or were you thinking at all?

Darth wrote:
Terran wrote:
Anyone can interpret and misquote raw numbers to mean anything they want it to mean
Terran wrote:
But hey, you can just pretend it works, just like all those 'quarterknock'ers who fail 90% of the time
Anyone can make up bullshit statistics too. I know I made a rule but I guess we can now both have -10 internet points together

I think it's already well established that I have +10...


That 90% failure rate of so called quarterknockers is an estimation that comes from a great deal of knowledge and experience over the years, far more than you. Quarterknocking is a theoretical cheapshot tactic bad players use to stand a chance against stronger players. To add the original context of these phrases you attempted to misquote me with: What works in Nameless Isle on the Master of Healing, doesn't work the same in real PvP. It's no different than a riposte Warrior who thinks he's superior because he beats other Warriors in a 1 versus 1 tournament. Lift your game, use your head and think for yourself. I gave you real statistics in my response to your silly challenge, showing you very clearly how you're wrong and even fixing the holes in your pvx copied build for you.



Last edited by Terran on Thu Oct 20, 2011 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Derelict



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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:17 pm

Terran wrote:

The opening sentence says, 'A proof is sufficient evidence or argument for the truth of a proposition.' Notice how I'm the only one who has shown evidence here, while all you fools can do is ignore it and make continuous empty claims.

Evidence


So tell me, when did your claims become evidence, while theres a multitude of people opposing you in unity.
How do our claims have less credibility than yours? Are you so much in denial?

Im pretty confident now that youre suffering from some kind of mental sickness as you are simply not capable of reason.
All i wanted was written proof of it, and you gave me plenty.

PS:
I really hope that recurring village-idiot-eating-poop theme isnt your childhood memories haunting you.


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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:33 am

Derelict wrote:
So tell me, when did your claims become evidence, while theres a multitude of people opposing you in unity

My claims become evidence when I produce the calculations, screenshots and logical explanations that sufficiently cover the topic at hand to prove my points.

You also claim a mulititude of support where none exists, as an attempt to add a false sense of credibility to yourself (because you have weak arguments that don't hold up on their own). Meanwhile, I don't lean on external support where it does exist, to avoid the use of bandwagon fallacies that encourage a bypass of reason as a way of supporting my arguments. In the community at large, there are more differing opinions than there are followers of any one opinion, and rarely are those followers reasonably informed enough to justify those opinions.

Argumentum ad populum: In logic, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it; it alleges: "If many believe so, it is so."
This type of argument is known by several names, including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, argument by consensus, authority of the many, and bandwagon fallacy, and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea.

Examples
  • Nine out of ten of my constituents oppose the bill, therefore it is a bad idea.
  • Nine out of ten of my fellow congressmen favor the bill, therefore it is a good idea.
  • It's silly for you to claim that Hitler would not have attacked the United States if they hadn't entered World War II. Everyone knows that he planned to conquer the world.
  • Brand X vacuum cleaners are the country's leading brand; so buy Brand X vacuum cleaners.
  • Watch Show X - the #1 watched show on television!
  • Fifty million Elvis fans can't be wrong.
  • All of my friends are doing it.
  • In a court of law, the jury vote by majority; therefore they will always make the correct decision.
  • Google gives more hits when this spelling is applied, therefore this has to be the correct spelling.
  • Most analysts consider Enron Corporation a well-run company with excellent management, so its common stock is a good investment.
  • Everyone jaywalks here, and as long as I look carefully, nothing will happen.
  • Find me anyone who shares your preposterous notion that the Earth orbits the Sun!
  • Twelve million people play World of Warcraft, so it must be the best video game.

Derelict wrote:
How do our claims have less credibility than yours? Are you so much in denial?

Because your claims are based on assumptions and emotional interpretation, lacking evidence (coherent calculations, screenshots and logical explanations etc) to support them. The best you can do is continuously jump from one point to another, looking for something irrelevant to appear victorious over, or heavily twist the facts in a painfully obvious attempt to appear credible.

Derelict wrote:
Im pretty confident now that youre suffering from some kind of mental sickness as you are simply not capable of reason.
All i wanted was written proof of it, and you gave me plenty

Right back at you.

Wikipedia on Reason: Reason is a term that refers to the capacity human beings have to make sense of things, to establish and verify facts, and to change or justify practices, institutions and beliefs. It is normally considered to be a definitive characteristic of human nature and is closely associated with such characteristically human activities as language, science, art, mathematics and philosophy. The concept of reason is sometimes referred to as rationality and sometimes as discursive reason, in opposition to "intuitive reason".

Derelict wrote:
I really hope that recurring village-idiot-eating-poop theme isnt your childhood memories haunting you

I really hope that 3,000 match losing streak isn't haunting you. If it is, perhaps its time to finally learn from your mistakes and fix whatever it is you're doing wrong. You can start by learning how to post in forums without putting the entire content of your posts inside a quote of someone else.
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DarthXX



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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:39 pm

Nice essay Terran, I read like the first 2 paragraphs then stopped, you should really include summaries. However I shall share what I have gleaned.

Terran wrote:
They used to frequently, then they either left in disgust or went silent. Even now, I get pm's in support of standing up to that crap. Understand what's going on. If you see a village idiot eating poop in the street, and noone walks up to tell him not to do it, does that mean they support him? If everyone else stops using the street, does that mean they support him? They don't walk up to him and tell him to piss off because they don't want to deal with him and get shit thrown at them. They try to ignore it and hope someone else deals with it.

Guild Wars is apparently Nazi occupied Poland.

As for the rest of what you said I'm sure this is an adequate response to all the dumb points you no doubt made.

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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:49 am

Oh Darth, poor Darth. You just don't get it. You're the means of your own defeat. Wake up!

DarthXX wrote:
I will go over this in some more detail to make sure everything is covered
DarthXX wrote:
This time I'm leaving as few stones unturned as I could think of
DarthXX wrote:
I read like the first 2 paragraphs then stopped
DarthXX in other threads wrote:
Didn't read that whole wall of text

tl;dr (too long didn't read)

I play purely to troll and grief other people, it gives me fulfillment in an otherwise barren and meaningless life.

And you even break even your own nonsensical 'rules of debate' right from the start.


DarthXX wrote:
Guild Wars is apparently Nazi occupied Poland

Guild Wars is troll occupied MMOland.



And at the end of the day, all you can do is play with pink ponies, because you have no leg of your own to stand on...

DarthXX wrote:

Don't you see, Darth e-Vader? Obi-won because anakin-not.



My kung fu will always be greater than your flung poo.



You will never be a Jedi until you learn to control your poop.
Magic stars Use the force, not force the use. Magic blast
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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:43 pm

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Jax



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PostSubject: Re: The Terrible Truth to Terran's Templates   Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:14 pm

so
fucking
retarded
just beyond belief
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